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Airliners and GNSS jamming [LWN.net]
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Airliners and GNSS jamming

Airliners and GNSS jamming

Posted Dec 18, 2024 17:31 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341)
In reply to: Airliners and GNSS jamming by farnz
Parent article: Providing precise time over the network

I can't really ask my retired pilot about this, as he retired before EGPWS was a thing (which uses topography information to give much better predictions of, uhm, potential future ground interaction, than earlier and much more basic GPWS), but I did not think the kind of topography information that EGPWS has is used for navigation. Neat if it does? Do you have a ref for that?

Absent of GNSS, aircraft can use VORs - radial radio stations the aircraft can pick up and follow. These are (I gather) very commonly used for precision approaches still, least in Europe, and can be used to navigate over and not-too-far-from land. The USA seems to be decommissioning a lot of VOR stations though - not sure what they intend the backup to be for GNSS failures. For trans-oceanic navigation commercial aircraft historically used INS, and the older electro-mechanical systems could achieve within 10 km accuracy over the atlantic. I assume modern INS systems (someone mentioned laser gyroscopes) are a lot more accurate.

There is also celestial navigation. This was used before GPS. Commercial aircraft had observation domes in olden times for a navigator to take measurements and do manual calculations. The USAF had automated celestial navigation systems even back in the electro-mechanical / electronic-valve days - pretty impressive (e.g., the SR-71 astro-inertial system). With modern tech, this should be much easier and cheaper to fit to aircraft, but I don't think there are any in use in commercial aviation - they rely on GNSS, and INS and VOR as fallbacks. I guess modern INS is more than good enough to not make automated celestial nav systems worth it?

Obviously, there is also the olde magnetic compass. Which hopefully can get you near enough a VOR to pick it up, if you're somewhere where those are sparse. In visual conditions, there is also the mark 1 eyeball, and following landmarks (rivers, lakes, mountains, coasts and such if at altitude; roads, railways, etc.. if lower down).


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Airliners and GNSS jamming

Posted Dec 18, 2024 19:43 UTC (Wed) by intelfx (subscriber, #130118) [Link]

> Absent of GNSS, aircraft can use VORs - radial radio stations the aircraft can pick up and follow. These are (I gather) very commonly used for precision approaches still, least in Europe

VOR-based approaches are not "precision", not at all. These would be squarely in the NPA land.

(To be fair, GNSS-only approaches without any kind of augmentation are also NPA.)

> Obviously, there is also the olde magnetic compass. Which hopefully can get you near enough a VOR to pick it up, if you're somewhere where those are sparse. In visual conditions, there is also the mark 1 eyeball, and following landmarks (rivers, lakes, mountains, coasts and such if at altitude; roads, railways, etc.. if lower down).

All of which is wholly inapplicable to airliners ;-)

Radar for navigation assist

Posted Dec 19, 2024 11:22 UTC (Thu) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (1 responses)

No reference to hand - it's from a pub conversation with someone who got transferred to Airbus from Bombardier as part of the C220 becoming the A220.

Apparently, though, their avionics can use topology data to determine what radar "should" be seeing, and that can then be fed back in to correct errors in inertial navigation, beacons, dead reckoning etc - if you know that radar should see a mountain at 10 km to 12 km in front of you (because you have a 2 km error radius on your location), and it's seeing it at 11.5 km, you can use that to reduce the error radius.

However I believe that the general thinking is that the answer to "war zones can have GNSS and beacon jammers" is "don't fly too near war zones, and allow for overspill", rather than "more sophisticated navigation equipment so that we can safely fly over war zones where air-to-air missiles are a real risk". And GNSS jamming in countries at peace can be dealt with by local authorities fairly quickly - a directional antenna for DF purposes at this frequency can be about a third of the size of a comparably directional UHF TV antenna, and you know that anything you track emitting significant power in this band that's slower than about 3,000 km/h is definitely a jammer (either mobile, or fixed). Also note that for jamming to be effective beyond about 500 km, you need an airborne jamming component, not just ground-based, which limits the risk still further.

Radar for navigation assist

Posted Dec 19, 2024 12:52 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Using the EGPWS topography maps to fix the INS is neat. Nice. :)


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