#indiewebcamp 2013-06-09
2013-06-09 UTC
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# 
Loqi [mention] http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/06/08/bright-fedsocindweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (pingback)
# Loqi [mention] http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/06/08/bright-fedsocindweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
# Loqi [mention] http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/06/08/bright-fedsocindweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (pingback)
# 
@mlinksva Life in the possibly bright future of the federated social indieweb http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/06/08/bright-fedsocindweb/ #lastatus
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# 
@laurelrusswurm RT @mlinksva: Life in the possibly bright future of the federated social indieweb http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/06/08/bright-fedsocindweb/ #lastatus
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# 
@singpolyma I have changed nothing, but for some reason http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com doesn't renew with my aggregator anymore #indieweb http://sngpl.ma/t4QRB
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# 
@mlfeatherston RT @mlinksva: Life in the possibly bright future of the federated social indieweb http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/06/08/bright-fedsocindweb/ #lastatus
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# 
nicolask_ hello there
# nicolask_ Aaron! :)
# nicolask_ Are you Arab?
# nicolask_ ok!
# nicolask_ so, where are u from?
# nicolask_ ah! ok
# nicolask_ so, r u into indie music?
# 
aaronpk haha, no, this channel is about the indie *web*. you can read more about that here: http://indiewebcamp.com
# nicolask_ oh! sorry my dumb question!
# nicolask_ reading about it ... pretty interesting
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# nicolask_ Mr Parecki
# Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/06/08/2/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (pingback)
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# 
tommorris.org edited /Twitter (+74) "/* POSSE Replies to Tweets */ I fixed it yesterday. ;)" (view diff)
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# sandeep.io uploaded /File:facebook-activity.png "Facebook user specified activities."
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# 
barnabywalters I just successfully deployed the latest version of taproot live to waterpigs.co.uk
# barnabywalters with filesystem storage and…
# barnabywalters comments!
# barnabywalters not via pingback *yet*
# barnabywalters but visible on the ~140 diaspora posts I imported
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# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: yay!
# barnabywalters hi sandeepshetty
# sandeepshetty hey :) how many posts did you import?
# barnabywalters almost 140 from diaspora
# barnabywalters not sure exactly how many comments, but I *do* know that some of them are the only remaining copy of that content I know of on the web
# barnabywalters due to me exporting them before some accounts were closed/servers shut down
# sandeepshetty ah I see you mentioned that.. for some reason I confused that with "140 char notes from diaspora"
# sandeepshetty so you moved everything to the filesystem?
# barnabywalters yep, everything’s using Librarian now. Stored in filesystem, indexed in mysql
# barnabywalters and versioned in git
# sandeepshetty nice :)
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: regarding really simple social blogging — nice write up
# barnabywalters +1 for u-mention being implied for any link in a h-entry
# barnabywalters repost is an interesting one
# barnabywalters I’ve personally never felt the need to explicitly repost things over quoting them, but the rest of the web seems to like it :)
# sandeepshetty For longer post I might just be quoting some of it, as a way to entice someone to click and read the original post...
# sandeepshetty so in a sense quoting might just be a subset...
# sandeepshetty but I don't have enough quoting use-cases yet
# barnabywalters I would have thought the other way round — reposting is a subset of quoting
# barnabywalters without additional content being added
# barnabywalters perhaps we should create /repost or add a section to http://indiewebcamp.com/quoting
# sandeepshetty posts where I've quoted I don't add additional content.. maybe that's why I see it as a subset
# barnabywalters typically when I do quote without adding any extra visible content, I’m still tagging it for retrieval later
# sandeepshetty I think tumblr turns reblogs into link sharing (with quoted text)
# barnabywalters which in itself is a variation of bookmarking
# barnabywalters which is currently my “like” equivalent
# sandeepshetty ah.. I've also tagged reposts. see http://www.sandeep.io/36
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# sandeepshetty re /quoting I'll take a look at it in a bit... busy wrapping up implementing accepting webmentions and figuring out mention context
# barnabywalters nice! I’m on to accepting comments by pingback/wm too now
# sandeepshetty evanpro: pump.io is looking good.
# evanpro sandeepshetty: glad to hear that
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: I pushed some UX changes so you can see where the like/repost/comment counts will go
# sandeepshetty evanpro: Hoping to contribute a PHP lib when I have sometime to learn more about pump.io
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I saw them! “Not implement yet” ;)
# evanpro sandeepshetty: deeply needed!
# barnabywalters *implemented
# evanpro We've got one for Python already
# evanpro But PHP not
# sandeepshetty yep I'll be using the python one for reference..
# sandeepshetty I took at look at it yesterday... but it'll be a few weeks before I get to it I think
# evanpro sandeepshetty: I just tagged you on the issue in github
# evanpro OK, I gotta get back to data munging
# evanpro Hoping to get Identi.ca moved to pump.io this weekend
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# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: Re "Not implemented yet" that is my failing test... making it pass now :) using php-mf2 for the time as well btw
# sandeepshetty s/time/first time
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: oh cool — let me know if you come across any problems
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: thanks
# barnabywalters I was reminded just how difficult it is to persuade git that you no longer want a file indexed, but apart from that it went fairly smoothly :)
# barnabywalters now implementing receiving of indieweb comments
# barnabywalters aaronpk: how are you storing comments/reply contexts?
# barnabywalters the fact they pop up in your tag pages imply they’re separate to your notes
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters, aaronpk : Do you know if eschnou is using -in-reply-to on the first federated indie web comment thread?
# aaronpk barnabywalters: here is my markdown source: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2846/8997286311_1fc37224ac_o.png
# aaronpk barnabywalters: here is where the content is stored on disk: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3760/8809487777_d9bbd60de5_o.png
# barnabywalters aaronpk: woah that’s fascinating
# barnabywalters that’s so cool
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: I don't the link referenced in the first img in the 2nd img?
# sandeepshetty for eschnou
# sandeepshetty I meant I don't *see* the link
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: the one that ends in 24947
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# sandeepshetty that explains it. Are the markdown files updates automatically when you receive a webmention?
# barnabywalters is the parser .json file purely the canonical mf2 JSON or processed at all?
# barnabywalters s/parser/parsed
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: that reminds me.... You edited webmention to add a "already_registered" error...
# sandeepshetty I might remove that because I think people should be able to send webmentions if they update their content
# sandeepshetty yep, happend with the one webmention I sent you... I chaged that post later..
# sandeepshetty the reply changed to a repost: http://www.sandeep.io/35
# sandeepshetty since I didn't have reposts early the only option I had was a reply
# sandeepshetty yep but you might have to present it differently..
# sandeepshetty cause it doesn't have any content anymore except for the #xkcd tag
# sandeepshetty it's a repost not a reply now :)
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: BTW, you asked me on twitter about UX for like counts, etc.. check the link I sent you early for first pass at it
# sandeepshetty by earlier I meant the "last link I sent you"
# sandeepshetty Actually you can just sandeep.io and you should see it
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# sandeepshetty There are still some things to be figured out.. like what it means to "repost a repost"...
# sandeepshetty I like the idea of a repost in the tumblr sense because it focuses on the original source..
# sandeepshetty and almost always, I don't want to add anything to posts I want to repost
# sandeepshetty If I want to comment on it, I would rather do it on the original and send a reply webmention
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: what are your apprehensions with repost?
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: Do you add additional commentary to quotes other than tags?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: yes. see http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes?tagged=quote
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: the first one there feels like a regular mention
# barnabywalters some of them are. some of the older ones are more like replies
# barnabywalters my quoting style is fairly loose
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: I've been thinking about adding a u-quote to links in posts where I quote something verbatim as part of a larger post... that's how I might do with something like that first post
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# sandeepshetty What is the microformats take on experimental classnames like I'm using... are they frowned upon or encouraged?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: fine for experimentation provided you use an -x- (e.g. u-x-quote)
# barnabywalters official classnames are all based off research into real world usage and existing standards
# sandeepshetty hmm... I don't like the x- pattern... because it means in the future you have to massage a lot of historic data... they even dropped it for X-headers in HTTP
# sandeepshetty re "massage a lot of historic data" when the x- thingy actually becomes part of the spec and you have to drop the -x-
# barnabywalters s/when/if
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: yep
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# sandeepshetty aaronpk: how do you use retweet and fav on twitter?
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# sandeepshetty yeah :)
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: liking is subjective to me... while reposting has to do with objective value (is it valuable to others that follow me?)
# sandeepshetty here are some more (dated) thoughts on social verbs: http://sandeep.shetty.in/2012/10/social-verbs.html
# sandeepshetty I didn't mean like in terms of expressing interest.. I meant in terms of me personally liking it... it about "me", where as reposting is about my "followers"
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: coverspace is still not there yet... so I might be posting a little bit longer on that blogger blog of mine... but eventually I want to move stuff to sandeep.io
# barnabywalters I love how we all have subtly different ways of thinking about the different types of content we publish
# sandeepshetty how is sleep passive?
# barnabywalters it cements my belief that conventional approaches to the “federated social web” are not optimal
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: I'm guessing you mean sleep data
# barnabywalters okay, if someone would like to help me test by sending me an indieweb comment (pingback only at the moment), I’ve just pushed the code
# sandeepshetty and how is like passive (in not the same way as repost)?
# barnabywalters constructive criticism of this (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QRFAQ/) in particular is welcome ;)
# sandeepshetty I've only been focusing on webmention cause I don't want to deal with the XML-RPC stuff in pingback.. but is everyone doing pingback first and then webmention?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: most of us have been, implementing webmention properly is next thing on my list now I think I have comments working
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: so the sleep distinction is also about being automatically generated.. it's about something you are interested in?
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: I meant it's *not* about being automatically generated
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# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: re http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QRFAQ/ haha... I was going to send you a like for it... but I only do webmention :)
# sandeepshetty I'm almost done with implementing receiving webmentions and figuring out type... I should be able to show counts in a few hours
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: :) no problem, my bad for not implementing WM properly already. a task for tomorrow — I’ve done enough hacking/boring deployment maintenance for one day
# sandeepshetty bbiab.. time for a really late dinner :)
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: ah yeah, just fixing some bugs — sorry, I should have mentioned it
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# sandeepshetty aaronpk: is there a form on pingback.me from where i could send manual pingaback?
# sandeepshetty or some other way?
# sandeepshetty are you posting the template xml file? that would be great :)
# grawity I usually add a _.md or README.md to get around that
# grawity Yeah
# sandeepshetty this is a good example of something I will like but not repost: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QRFAQ/
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: :D
# sandeepshetty and something /i also don't have anything to say about... but I like it :)
# sandeepshetty so no comments.... barnabywalters let me know when you accept likes :)
# barnabywalters oookay… after 5 mins of wrestling with git I think I’ve got it working
# barnabywalters I’m also displaying comment counts now (e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/?before=2012-02-27T18%3A33%3A31%2B00%3A00&tagged=diaspora)
# sandeepshetty nice
# barnabywalters I’m off now — thanks for helping me test! goodnight all.
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# sandeepshetty gn
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# sandeepshetty evanpro: What was the thinking behind differentiating between major and minor activities in pump.io?
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# sandeepshetty tantek: was looking forward to your feedback...
# evanpro sandeepshetty: hey
# evanpro Sorry about that
# evanpro sandeepshetty: it's mostly presentation
# sandeepshetty evanpro: so the apps decide what goes where or are activities inherently major or minor?
# evanpro sandeepshetty: inherently minor or major
# evanpro It's pretty arbitrary -- if the verb is "share" or "post" and the object is not a "comment", it's major. Otherwise, minor.
# aaronpk sandeepshetty: https://github.com/indieweb/webmention/pull/1 feedback/edits welcome
# evanpro sandeepshetty: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/blob/master/lib/model/activity.js#L1406
# evanpro aaronpk: almost definitely microformats. I haven't looked at webmention yet
# evanpro aaronpk: and thanks for the kind words!
# aaronpk sweet! webmention is pretty simple, kind of like pingback but easier: http://webmention.org
# sandeepshetty tantek: For me - reposting is about saying this entire post is interesting (http://www.sandeep.io/35) while quoting is about curating just the relevant parts (http://www.sandeep.io/27)
# grawity speaking of wiki... any chance of me convincing you to allow wiki logins with domain+path? never really got a definitive answer when discussing this earlier
# sandeepshetty evanpro: +1 for pointing to code :) So any new arbitrary activity is minor by default?
# evanpro sandeepshetty: yes
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# sandeepshetty evanpro: I know you're busy so one last question: pump.io is push based right? so when you post something it fans out updates to followers (or relevant people)?
# evanpro Yes
# evanpro Exactly
# sandeepshetty or does it use PuSH+json?
# evanpro It does not
# sandeepshetty I mean do you support hubs?
# evanpro It has its own endpoint
# evanpro No
# evanpro PuSH is pretty great
# evanpro But it doesn't allow unsolicited messages
# evanpro Just publisher -> subscriber
# evanpro Salmon was supposed to fix that
# evanpro But it's hard to make it work
# evanpro So I just collapsed the two endpoints to an "inbox"
# sandeepshetty So it's just a json activity stream payload posted to a inbox url?
# evanpro Yep
# evanpro Specifically, a single activity
# evanpro Not a collection
# sandeepshetty and it has no s2s protocol right/
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: re the webmetion pull request.. right now the domain is associated with the other repo...
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: I meant webmention.org
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# sandeepshetty tantek: did you get my last msg?
# sandeepshetty tantek: here it is again: For me - reposting is about saying this entire post is interesting (http://www.sandeep.io/35) while quoting is about curating just the relevant parts (http://www.sandeep.io/27)
# sandeepshetty I had examples in the RSSB post as well.
# sandeepshetty nope didn't see it..
# evanpro tantek: yes, I agree
# sandeepshetty I also need to document stuff about "like vs repost"
# sandeepshetty I think salmon tried to be "perfect" and cover all bases... which is why it sucks.
# sandeepshetty bret: thanks... on the indieweb it's more like *we* are... one person is not a social network :)
# grawity let's assume it is a regular domain
# 
bret i started the subdomain page if you want to write about ideas, I am afraid I only wrote what made sence to me so others should probrably look over it: http://indiewebcamp.com/subdomains
# grawity tantek: okay: for one, I have sufficient trust in http://eu.org (for example, more than .TC, which was discussed the same day)
# grawity for another, I bought a 'real' .eu domain that serves the same website
# 
tantek bret, thanks for writing up http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#tc
# grawity right – that's one of my points: "at least with domain name rental services you there's a well-understood profit motive / customer service to not screw people over" is sometimes just false
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: I desperately need the ability to login to the wiki from *any* page... right now it's the biggest "flow" breaker, which means I don't edit as frequently as I could...
# tantek sandeepshetty - refer to this: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/#Login_from_any_page
# sandeepshetty bret: the high price is interesting...
# sandeepshetty by keeping a high barrier, the namespace doesn't become a commodity and therefore they can keep the price high
# grawity hmm
# sandeepshetty tantek: By +1 you just mean leaving a comment there that I need it right?
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# sandeep.io edited /repost (+802) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Why repost and repost vs like." (view diff)
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# 
@sandeepshetty :) "<bret>
# Loqi whoa sandeepshetty, you are like rolling your own facebook. Nice!" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-09#t1370809610 #converspace #rssb #indieweb #fedsocweb
# @sandeepshetty "<sandeepshetty>
# Loqi bret: thanks... on the indieweb it's more like *we* are... one person is not a social network :)" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-09#t1370809660
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# sandeepshetty !tell eschnou: There is something wrong with your URL auto-linker: See my comment here http://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html
# sandeepshetty !tell eschnou: You also need to accept pingbacks for updates to the comment on my site.
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