{{DRN archive top|reason=No talk page discussion, but I have copied Farhadpersia's response here to [[Talk:Bane_in_other_media#Discussion_from_DRN]] to get talk started there. If discussion there stalls, please feel free to relist here. — [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 14:39, 26 July 2012 (UTC)}}

I am a regular volunteer here at DRN. Most of what you say above refers to conduct issues which are not handled at this noticeboard, please try [[WP:WQA]], [[WP:RFCU]], or [[WP:SPI]] for those. As for the "overly long and detailed sections in Bane in other media," I can find no discussion of that topic at either article's talk page or at the other editor's user talk page and this noticeboard (and all other forms of content dispute resolution) requires talk page discussion before listing a request for DR. Please discuss the issues at the article talk page(s) and if you cannot come to a resolution, then please feel free to re-list here. I'll leave this open for awhile so you can point us to a discussion if I've missed it. Regards, [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 21:27, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

The preceding is an ''excellent'' discussion, but there's one thing wrong with it: It ought to be happening as part of the RFC at the article talk page, not here, since there has been ''no'' discussion of this issue there (despite Woovee's best, and good faith, efforts to get the other editor to engage). This must be closed here and continued there and '''''I would ask the other editors who have joined in here to please continue the discussion there.''''' I have taken the liberty of copying the foregoing discussion over to that talk page so it can be easily continued. Thank you all very, very much. Best regards, [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 15:15, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

<small>I'm leaving this open for a day or two so everyone can see the foregoing, but please continue the discussion at the article talk page, not here. — [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 15:17, 27 July 2012 (UTC)</small>

::The issue is, for Chambers, ultimately definitional (and this could be stated in a couple of different ways, but this is the simplest): Is a person gay because he has homosexual attractions or is he gay because he leads a homosexual lifestyle? His rejection of the term "ex-gay" would ''seem'' to indicate the former, but he may be simply rejecting that term because of his belief that one cannot be "cured" of homosexual attractions. For that reason, I believe that unless a reliable source can be found in which Chambers expressly and unequivocally, without any need for analysis or interpretation, self-labels himself as currently being gay that he should not be categorized or listed in any LGBT category or list despite the fact that he self-identifies himself as once having been gay. (Indeed, I note that he is currently still categorized under "People self-identified as ex-gay". Since there are reliable sources such as [http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/18/nation/na-exgay18 this] which say that he now rejects that term, I think that it ought to also be removed from the article. I do not feel the same way about the "Ex-gay movement" category, by the way; if it can be reliably sourced that he was once part of that movement that category can remain even though he is no longer a part of it, since that's not self-identification about who or what he ''is''.) Regards, [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 16:30, 24 July 2012 (UTC) '''Addendum:''' After reading and searching more of Chambers' book "Leaving Homosexuality", I'm more convinced — and I'm the first to admit that what I'm about to say involves [[WP:OR|original research]] and could not be included in an article — that my foregoing analysis of the possibilities of how he might or might not self-identify is correct. In his book, most notably at page 133, he talks about part of leaving homosexuality being a rejection of self-identification as being homosexual and substituting for it an identity in Christ: "Whether a male homosexual or a lesbian, there is a push to identify yourself as gay. Life becomes ordered around that. There are gay newspapers, gay magazines, gay television channels, gay tourist attractions, gay jargon, gay churches, and so on. ... For that reason, a large part of 'staying the course' after leaving homosexuality is becoming rooted in your new identity in Christ." On page 143 he refers to "minister[ing] to gay-''identified'' people" (emphasis added) and on page 23 he says, "As I often say, the opposite of homosexuality isn't heterosexuality; it's ''holiness.'' God wants you to pursue ''His holiness'' not heterosexuality." (Emphasis in original.) I'm not suggesting that a search for reliable sources in which he clearly and unequivocally identifies himself as either homosexual or heterosexual shouldn't be undertaken, but from what he says in his book, I strongly suspect that he is taking a nuanced position which at the very least rejects self-identification as a homosexual and may also reject self-identification as a heterosexual. For the reasons I gave above, unless an unequivocal reliable source can be found to prove my analysis wrong, he should not be categorized or listed in LGBT categories. — [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 18:21, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

<small>If there is no response, this thread will be closed 24 hours after this time: July 27, 2012 at 15:24 (UTC) Reason: Appears to be stale or resolved. — [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 15:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)</small>

I am a regular volunteer here at DRN. So far, everything in this discussion has been about user conduct. The "rules" for this noticeboard make it quite clear that this board is for content disputes, not conduct disputes. If there is ''any'' further discussion about user conduct, I will close this listing. If you want to talk about whether specific ''content'' is or is not appropriate for Wikipedia, please do so, but if you want to talk about conduct, take it to [[WP:WQA]], [[WP:RFC/U]], [[WP:ANI]], or some specialty conduct noticeboard such as (if applicable) [[WP:3RRN]], but no more here. — [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 18:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I am a regular volunteer here at DRN. I'm afraid that what you are asking is not possible. This is not an adminstrator's forum and except for the occasional administrator who just happens to join in, none of us here are administrators. Moreover, administrators at Wikipedia have absolutely no power or authority to decide content questions. What goes into or stays out of Wikipedia is decided by the [[WP:CONS|consensus]] of ordinary editors, partly that consensus which is reached in individual discussions, and partly that which is embodied in [[WP:POLICY|policy and guidelines]]. As for "its never going to be settled until someone higher up rules what references and language is best fitting," please see [[WP:CONS#No_consensus|here]] for what happens when no agreement can be reached. Regards, [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 16:08, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

::Red Pen, I don't disagree and that's the reason I left this open for the IP editor to supplement it if s/he cares to do so. I think it might be better if this was closed and a new case filed with a clearer statement of what the particular content issues may be rather than trying to patch up this listing, but feel free to do either if you would like for this to go forward. Regards, [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<fontspan facestyle="font-family:Trebuchet MS"; font-size="1:x-small;">TALK</fontspan>]]) 14:30, 26 July 2012 (UTC)