Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Liz

Liz

Voice your opinion on this candidate (talk page) (121/15/3); Scheduled to end 10:38, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Nomination

Liz (talk · contribs) – Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to present to you an outstanding candidate for adminship, Liz. Liz has been around on Wikipedia for a couple of years, but I can't remember a time without seeing her name in conversations. I'm pleased to say that whenever I look, she's the one talking sense! A quick look at her talk page will show you how helpful she is and how much of a difference she makes. Liz is active at the Teahouse, helping out new users, helps out at places like BLP noticeboard and does an exceptional job dealing with difficult users as an arbitration committee clerk. Her diplomatic skills are exemplary and she has managed to remain a calm and sensible voice in our more contentious areas. When she's not doing that, she's gnoming away categories, making sure the encyclopedia is organised.
I do always have a concern when a candidate does not have significant content work - it makes it harder for them to empathise with those editors who do and lack of empathy leads to a significant portion of admin problems. Liz, however, has demonstrated empathy, understanding and helpfulness. That certainly allays my fears there.
Overall, we're left with a candidate who ticks the right boxes. When it comes down to it, I trust her to be an excellent administrator, and that's all I could ask for. Worm^TT(talk) 06:28, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Co-nomination

I've been aware of Liz primarily through her work as an ArbCom clerk, and the way she approaches this role has convinced me that she would be an excellent candidate for admin rights. Liz has two major points in her favour: firstly, she's proved to be a model of diplomacy and discretion when dealing with complex, heated issues; and secondly, she's never been afraid to ask for help and advice when unsure of something. I'm absolutely confident that, if handed the tools, she would be one of our most cautious and circumspect administrators.
The spectre of content creation (or lack thereof) will undoubtedly raise it's head during this discussion; my position is that content creators are at the heart of Wikipedia, and that those who don't deal in content have the primary duty of supporting those who do. Liz already provides this support - how much more effective would she be with administrative rights as well? Yunshui ^雲_水 07:51, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Another conomination

It is my great pleasure to conominate Liz for adminship. It's not often that one encounters such a versatile candidate, somebody who can work both in extremely out-of-the-way places and tackle issues in the most high-profile parts of Wikipedia, and Liz does both. For better or for worse CfD is about as backwater a place as it gets, and she has been invaluable to the process and keeping it from falling into total disarray. At the same time, whenever I see her username come up during an ANI dispute or during an arbitration request there is always a helpful and thoughtful comment attached to it. She has clearly demonstrated excellent knowledge of Wikipedia's myriad policies and forums, and giving her some extra administrative tools to carry out her work will make Wikipedia that much better a place for both our readers and editors. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 20:29, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: I gratefully accept. Thank you to my Worm That Turned, Yunshui and The Blade of the Northern Lights for the nomination. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:28, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. Please answer these questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: I intend to work in areas I'm familiar with, specifically, in my clerk duties for ArbCom and also in WP:CFD discussions. I'm becoming more familiar with deletion discussions and would start off cautiously with areas like WP:EXPROD, WP:EXPRODBLP, CAT:EMPTY,Category:Expired editnotices and CAT:G13. I'd also like to help out on noticeboards like WP:RFPP and WP:UAA. Aside from working in backlogged administrative areas, I also want to spend time discussing with new editors problems that might occur regarding appropriate usernames and user page issues like WP:NOTWEBHOST and WP:NOTDIRECTORY

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: I'm primarily a wikignome and I do a lot of work with categories and categorization. I think the biggest project I took on was categorizing all 3,916 Signpost articles that were issued over its 10 1/2 year run. Aside from some of the articles covering WikiProject reports which Ottawahitech categorized a few years ago, the vast majority of articles were uncategorized and the archives were very incomplete. I view the Signpost as an invaluable resource in understanding how Wikipedia, Wikipedia's editors and policies have evolved after 2005 and the archives are available to both editors and researchers who are interested in seeing, for example, how Wikipedia has been portrayed in the media, how the arbitration process has changed and how new technology has been introduced to the project. I know that I learned an awful lot about the Wikipedia editing community when I went through all of the articles. I should mention that there is an additional indexing/tagging project that is starting at the Signpost but I still believe that, aside from the search tool, categories are the primary and most basic way to find information and that having the articles correctly categorized will facilitate that project.

The other large project I undertook was in March 2014, I went through 1,174 WikiProjects (along with their task forces), reviewed their status (active, inactive, defunct or semi-active) and updated their tagging and categorization. In some cases, editing a dormant WikiProject caused a conversation with a member as the page unexpectedly popped up on their Watchlist. I was able to see the incredible diversity in WikiProjects that have been created and how activity levels have changed over the years. Also, in the past, I spent a lot of time on noticeboards and I like to think that I helped the discussions there stay on topic.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: Unless one edits in a rarely visited topical area of Wikipedia, editing will sometimes involve conflict. Editors have different levels of editing experience, work with different knowledge bases and bring their own point of view. Well-intentioned people can disagree when they collaborate. But conflict isn't always destructive and full of animosity, sometimes lively discussion about an article can lead to improvement. I know there are several editors I greatly respect now but my first encounter with them was not initially a positive experience. I try not to take criticism personally and look for the kernel of truth amid cautions and warnings I've received. I also find it helpful not to edit when I'm tired because when one is sleep-deprived, one can get sloppy or be overly sarcastic or bitey towards other editors.

When I think of serious conflicts I've had on Wikipedia, they haven't been about editing, they have been about my choice to defend some editors that I thought, at that time, were being bullied. I believed that every editor deserved to have their say and thought these editors were getting shouted down. My defense of these editors made me unpopular among regular editors in this subject area (biographies that were related to pseudoscience). This didn't cause me stress because at the time I truly believed what I was doing was helping reach a consensus. In hindsight, I see that I shouldn't have participated in divisive arguments without knowing the more of the details of the articles in contention along with their history. Also, while many new editors are simply unfamiliar with the editing and consensus processes at Wikipedia and they have the potential to get clue, other newbies are extremely persistent, unwilling to drop the stick and are here to right great wrongs. I've learned to be more circumspect when entering areas that have become a battleground. I'm careful when editing an article that falls under discretionary sanctions because there is a reason why the sanctions exist, because the discussion surrounding the subject has been contentious.

Additional question from Northamerica1000

4. How do you perceive the overall present state of AfD on Wikipedia?

A: Although I first nominated an article for deletion right after I started this account (which was kept), I consider myself a newcomer at AfD. I'm hesitant to pass judgment on an area of Wikipedia where there are regular editors and admins who devote a lot of time to discussion and determining notability while I have limited experience there. But I think, like many areas of Wikipedia, AfD could benefit from wider participation of a larger pool of contributors. I've been looking through a lot of AfD nominations lately and there are many which have one or no other editors weighing in other than the nominator. And sometimes articles get deleted based on an AfD nomination and one other editor arguing for deletion which seems like a low bar for deletion of content. Relisting can help but it doesn't always draw in fresh eyes.

But having participated a lot at CfD and a bit at MfD, I can say that there is often a small group of regulars who actively prevent backlogs from occurring. Editors who participate in focused areas like reviewing GAs, FAs or at AfC might have the same lament of needing more editors to help out a core group of regulars. On Wikipedia, editors tend to specialize in certain activities but I believe it helps the project if editors with a variety of different perspectives and experience participate in deletion discussions.

Additional question from Nsk92

5. Could you give some examples of articles you created or substantially improved?

A: No, I can't. In article space, I generally perform wikignomish tasks like copyediting, formatting (there are lots of problems with tables) and fixing references which are bare URLs or are incomplete. As you can tell if you look at my edit count, I haven't spent a lot of time focused on specific articles and have breadth, rather than depth.

If I can just make a comment here though because I knew this question might come up. When I started seriously editing Wikipedia, I had left a long stint in graduate school where I wrote dozens of referenced papers for courses, conferences and a few publications (including one printed encyclopedia). I was exhausted by the end and, coming to Wikipedia, I wanted a break from that especially since my area of study (sociology of race, gender, religion), is full of conflict on Wikipedia. I focused on organization, that is, categories, and small editing fixes rather than content creation. But the sociology articles on Wikipedia could use some improvement and I feel like I should making a contribution there. So I hope this can change in the near future and, after educating myself on the differences between academic writing and creating content on Wikipedia, I can work on expanding Wikipedia's coverage of sociological topics, literature and scholars.

Additional question from Brustopher

6. Jimmy Wales descends from the heavens and gives you the magical power to ignore all rules and salt and delete any one Wikipedia page of your choice. Which page do you choose to salt and delete, and why?

A: That's easy, it's was just deleted last month but I would salt Wikipedia:Don't be a pussy. That essay existed on the project too long, long after Wikipedia:Don't be a dick became a redirect to Wikipedia:Don't be a jerk. I hope that page would never be recreated but I'd salt it just to be sure.

Additional question from Brustopher

7. If given the mop, do you have any plans to get involved in discretionary sanctions enforcement? If so, what approach will you take towards sanctions enforcement?

A: Yes, I think enforcing discretionary sanctions comes with the territory. Of course, if I pass this RfA, I would never take action in a subject in which I am involved. The only area covered by DS that I consider myself involved is Gamergate.

Additional questions from User:DESiegel

8. What is your view of Process is important?

A: My view is highly favorable. Although to an individual editor, processes on Wikipedia can be frustrating, there is a reason why specific processes are proposed, created and developed over time...to standardize how important decisions are made rather than making their outcome variable and arbitrary. Decisions based on processes like deletion discussions or RfAs involve determining the consensus of those editors participating rather than having one editor acting on what they believe to be true or right. An important element of Wikipedia processes is when an editor questions why their contribution has been deleted or their article failed a Good Article review, they can be told policy-based answers that will hopefully lead to content improvement rather than being told "I didn't like it."

While acting out of process and taking shortcuts can be tempting to impatient editors or admins, doing so can lead to sanctions, blocks and even desysopping. While all Wikipedia processes can be imperfect in execution, they are a safeguard against unfairness and editors need to know that there are certain conditions that result in an article, category or template being deleted, disputes getting resolved or an editor becoming an admin, bureaucrat or arbitrator.

9. How strictly should the literal wording of the speedy deletion criteria be applied?

A: Very strictly because a speedy delete tagging can have an immediate impact. If there is any question about whether the SD criteria apply or if there is significance to the subject, a PROD or AFD nomination is warranted. If the reviewing editor believes that there are specific problems with an article involving issues like COI, NPOV or inadequate referencing, they can fix it themselves, tag the article or post a notice to the article creator outlining ways the article can be improved.

10. What is the place of WP:IAR in carrying out administrative actions?

A: I think it is an important pillar but should be invoked sparingly. Sometimes, as when an editor indulges in wikilawyering, they can argue for a technical interpretation of policies or guidelines that goes against their intent or purpose. So, IAR acknowledges that breaking a rule is possible if it is preventing one from improving the project. But in all cases of IAR, an editor or admin must be prepared to explain their action and supply justifications for why a specific technical reading of policy is not in keeping with the spirit of the policy. In the case of administrative actions, I believe that explaining an IAR action is part of administrator accountability.

11. An admin is often expected or requested to help others, particularly new users, and to aid in calming disputes, either resolving them or pointing the participants to proper venues for resolution. How do you see yourself in this aspect of an Admin's role?

A: I think this is an important role for both editors and administrators. While many people focus on the tools an administrator has at their disposal, an less appreciated skill is the ability to communicate with editors, particularly ones that are unfamiliar with Wikipedia's many guidelines. When I moved from being a casual editor to a regular one, I was pretty frustrated, finding myself corrected for not following so many rules I didn't even know existed. Calm explanations from editors and admins, like Redrose64, made the difference between me learning the ropes here or leaving embittered. I believe in a revised version of Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance and I appreciate the editors and admins who take the time to explain procedures before chastising new editors for not following them. I aspire to follow their example.

Additional question from Ritchie333

12. A brand new user creates an article. Its entire content is : "Wings Place is a house in sussex". What do you do?

A: Initially, this looks like a CSD A1 but doing a search quickly provides information on the ‘Anne of Cleves House’. I find that Anne of Cleves House already exists on Wikipedia but I'd have to do a bit more sleuthing to see if the two houses are one and the same since I'm not familiar with Sussex. If they are the same house, I would change the Wings Place page to a redirect to the Anne of Cleves House and notify the creator that their article duplicates an existing topic. If they aren't the same house, well, I'd use whatever information I found to provide referencing to this newly created article.

Additional question from Ritchie333

13. An IP removes a paragraph from Moors Murders. An experienced and popular editor who helped get the article through FAC reverts with a summary "not an improvement". The two editors revert each other again. The IP adds a note to to the talk page and reverts. The experienced editor reverts again with an edit summary "have you got shit for brains or what?" An uninvolved third party posts a note to WP:AN3. As an admin, what do you do?

A: I don't know the span of time over which these reverts happened (a day? weeks?) but assuming it is over 24 hours, they haven't gone over 3 reverts. But this is clear edit-warring. I'd post a warning notice to both the IP and the experienced editor and encourage them to discuss the proposed changes on the article talk page. I think the IP would need to make an exceptionally strong case to justify the wholesale removal of a paragraph from a Featured Article. I'd also make sure that Moors Murders is on my Watchlist so I could see if there was further disruption to the article.

Additional question from Hawkeye7

14 A Wikipedian sneaks into a portaloo at Wikimania and removes the contents left by Jimbo Wales. A home canning outfit is then used, and the results are sold on EBay as "Jimbo Wales's canned shit." This attracts mainstream media attention. Can an article be created about the product? Which of our policies and guidelines apply here?

A: @Hawkeye7:, points for originality. First, I doubt that a story about anyone's canned excrement on EBay would be covered by reliable sources (WP:V) but since this is a hypothetical case, let's assume that the New York Times and the BBC publish a story about "Jimbo Wales's canned shit" rather than the incident being covered by tabloid sources (WP:BLPSOURCES) which would not be considered reliable. An article can be created on any subject but this one would be deleted due to violations of WP:BLP policy, specifically, "biographies of living persons ('BLPs') must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy." While an argument could be made based on Wales being a public figure, BLP policy states that a negative allegation or incident can be mentioned in an article if it is "noteworthy, relevant, and well documented". In this case, I would argue that this incident isn't noteworthy or relevant when considering the entire biography of Wales and is a trivial incident that has little to no influence on his life, career or impact on culture.

Comment Artist's Shit - context is everything. Bazj (talk) 15:09, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Additional question from Bishonen

15 Liz, I note your response to question 3 above, where you mention your "choice to defend some editors that I thought, at that time, were being bullied" and that you would have acted more circumspectly today. I hope you don't mind if I ask a little more specifically about your choices now. What are your present ideas wrt WP:FRINGE and fringe POV-pushers? A year or two ago, I thought them dubious, indeed to be absolutely frank I regarded you as something of an enabler of fringe editors. Strong words, I know, and I totally know you act differently now. You're a tactful clerk on arb pages, you're helpful all over the place, and I don't really know if you edit wrt to fringe editors at all these days. (Your gnoming edits are very helpful, Liz, but the sheer copiousness of them means your contribs are hard to parse.)

Your input on the Tumbleman SPI was deplorable IMO. But it's from a year and a half ago, and so Wikipedia's "it was ages ago, AGF that the candidate has learned better since" principle kicks in, and Manul removes his question. But I would like you yourself (not so much your supporters), if you would, to state whether or not you think differently now. I think your emphasis on popularity and circumspection above may not do you justice, and, well, I'd like to feel able to support without misgivings. A few examples: do you have any opinion today about the campaign that drove IRWolfie off Wikipedia? I'm not suggesting you took active part in any campaign, but I noted your post (diplomatically speaking of "certain editors" but chiefly meaning Wolfie) in this thread (the thread is important context). That's not a huge deal on your part, just one edit and just something I happened to be aware of, since Wolfie asked me twice for long self-requested blocks, and I know how those unreelenting attacks affected him. Somewhat bigger examples: Do you feel any differently today about your support of Askahrc or Tumbleman[1]? BTW, I would ignore Hawkeye's question just above if I were you, maybe remove it. It's a troll. Oh, I see you already replied, while I was fiddling with this post. Up to you, but it's still a troll. I'd have removed it. Bishonen | talk 18:35, 30 July 2015 (UTC).

A: Thank you, Bishonen, for providing me with such nuanced feedback. I don't want to write a wall of text in response and I feel like no matter how much I write, you might find the answer incomplete. But I'll do my best.

I was a casual editor of Wikipedia until July 2013 when I began editing more intensively. From July-October 2013, I was rather zealous, idealistic and prone to want to right great wrongs. I am a strong believer in assuming good faith and, until the sockpuppet investigation indicated that the Tumbleman had used a number of accounts, I believed in giving the editor the benefit of the doubt. I didn't view his commentary on the Rupert Sheldrake talk page as disruptive, I thought he was just presenting a different point of view than the editors who were actively working on this article. But it was a battleground at that time. I was not aware of IRWolfie being driven off of Wikipedia as, the way I view it, he was very successful it bringing editors to AE when he thought they were violating pseudoscience discretionary sanctions. I wasn't aware of unrelenting attacks against him but as there are blog entries discussing me, using my real life identity, because of comments I've made on Gamergate, I can sympathize with him if he was a target of off-wiki maligning. It is disheartening and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

As for the area of pseudoscience, I give it a wide berth. I haven't edited any pseudoscience articles, I never received a notice about pseudoscience discretionary sanctions, my comments regarding editors working in this area (not the subjects themselves) were in project space, user talk pages and article talk pages. What my issue has always been is with labeling people as being "fringe". I know that fringe POV pushers, trolls, socks and otherwise disruptive editors exist and that they consistently cause damage to Wikipedia. But I also see that these are labels that once given to editors, especially new editors, are impossible to shake or overcome. Being called "fringe" by an editor is basically a sign to others that this individual is here to cause trouble and should be given the boot. I think there should be evidence that an editor is here to promote a point of view contrary to mainstream science and I don't think talk page comments hold the same weight as edits that shape articles on sensitive subjects.

As for how I would act differently now, well, when a number of well-established editors criticize an editor as being disruptive, I don't dismiss their concerns, I view the situation objectively rather than as a battleground between editors with different levels of influence which is how I viewed it two years ago. But, to be honest, since I returned to Wikipedia after a wikibreak, I spend little time on noticeboards, especially compared to my past behavior, and I'm no longer drawn into controversy. The one exception I see is Gamergate where I keep a limited presence on the talk page as I think it is important for at least one female editor to participate there.

I don't know if these answers will reassure you, or anyone else, or whether it tilts your vote in one direction or the other. But you asked me valid questions and I think editors participating here should know where I used to stand and where I stand now. Please let me know if you have additional questions you'd like me to address if this answer is insufficient.

General comments

• Links for Liz: Liz (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• Edit summary usage for Liz can be found here.

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Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review their contributions before commenting.

Discussion

• If I could vote, I would support. In the time - honoured phrase, "I thought you were". 86.134.217.46 (talk) 18:46, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as co-nom. Yunshui ^雲_水 10:32, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
2. Support. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 10:33, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
3. Support as co-nom. Worm^TT(talk) 10:35, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
4. Support. Don't see why not. -- haminoon (talk) 10:39, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
5. Support Absolutely qualified for the tools. Sam Walton (talk) 10:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
6. Support Yep, seems a good editor. Looking at her talkpage I am satisfied for her becoming an admin --EurovisionNim (talk to me)(see my edits) 10:46, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
7. Support No brainer. Bazj (talk) 11:00, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
8. Support — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 11:08, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
9. Support Trust me, I was waiting for this nomination for months. She is an excellent editor, I have worked with her in ArbCom related thingy and I always thought why on earth is this editor not admin. From dealing with difficult editors to helping newbies, she has proved herself to be one of the best. I bet, you can't bring up a single red flag. Jim Carter 11:10, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
10. Support Patient, involved editor. No issues. Kuru (talk) 11:16, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
11. Support Highly deserved. - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:17, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
12. Support This is a no-brainer. Jianhui67 ^T★C 11:18, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
13. Obvious support as conom. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 11:23, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
14. Support, one of the best, most level-headed editors I've come across, will definitely be a benefit to the project. ansh666 11:36, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
15. Support. Looks good to me. Deb (talk) 11:52, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
16. Support The editor has done some amazing work, and I really thought she was an admin already. She seems like she would be a great help in admin areas that don't really seem to be patrolled that often, so that's an added bonus. BenLinus1214^talk 11:55, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
17. Support precious inquiring mind, + I appreciate openly saying when a discussion is over, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:21, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
18. Support Liz is someone on whom we can all always count to approach any situation with knowledge, tact, and "cautious decisiveness" (the best of both). She will be an excellent administrator. Go Phightins! 12:40, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
19. Easy support - I've been anticipating this nomination. The candidate is well-qualified and someone that we can readily trust.- MrX 13:03, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
20. Support As close to a no-brainer as I've seen. Fine temperament for adminship and plenty of clue. Miniapolis 13:05, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
21. Support, I do not see any issues.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:50, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
22. Support, at the risk of making the rest of us admins look bad in comparison. ;) ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 13:51, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
23. Support, a shoo-in. Guy (Help!) 14:11, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
24. Support Thought she was an admin already. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 15:03, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
25. Support with pleasure and without hesitation. (One note to Liz: try your best not to allow your edits to articles, already a little low, to drop lower as an admin.) I know you'll do a great job. BMK (talk) 15:31, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
26. Support. I considered nominating Liz for adminship a while ago - I'm glad to see she's running now. She's an excellent editor and I'm sure she will do well with the mop. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 15:38, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
27. Of course support – from what I know, she should have been an Admin long ago. She'd already be in the top 10% of Admins in terms of what she knows about all the ins-and-outs of Adminship. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:07, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
28. Support - As proven a million and one times here you don't need to create articles to be an admin and I personally don't think it should matter but hey ho, Anyway excellent candidate, No issues!, Good luck although you probably won't need it as you'll sail through this :) –Davey2010^Talk 16:49, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
29. Support. This is a no-brainer. Calidum T|C 16:51, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
30. Support, Worm was right with the "always talking sense" part; I can confirm that from all my interactions with Liz. Huon (talk) 17:00, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
31. Support Whenever I have seen Liz around I have thought she should be an admin. Davewild (talk) 17:05, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
32. Support. It might seem lazy, but I'm simply supporting because she seems like a good candidate and my procedural checks didn't turn up any serious reason to oppose. Good luck! --Biblioworm 17:17, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
33. Support Absolutely. I have not come across another editor who is as cautious and truly open to learning and understanding the ways of Wikipedia than Liz. If she applies even a portion of the common sense she has shown to date to admin duties then the encyclopedia will benefit substantially.--Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 17:25, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
34. Support - no issues at all, and the fact that the best the opposers can muster up is "no content creation" says it all. No content creation = no big deal. GiantSnowman 17:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
35. Support - Her article work is not the strongest, but Liz is so level-headed I'm glad to support her for admin anyway. Would definitely be a net positive. Altamel (talk) 17:45, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
36. Support. As for many other editors above, this is an easy decision for me, having in particular seen the candidate's work on behalf of ArbCom. Strong nominations and good answers to questions, the latter sufficiently articulate to put to rest any concerns about the ability to write or the ability to interact intelligently and thoughtfully with editors who are heavily involved with content creation. I looked at the diff in the first oppose comment, and frankly I see it as reflecting well, not as reflecting badly. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:02, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
37. Support. Gamaliel (talk) 19:06, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
38. Support, with some advice. There's no doubt Liz is diplomatic, even-tempered, patient, and receptive to criticism, and her unusual profile of interests on wikipedia would be valuable as an admin. I do want to reiterate some of what I said in this thread last month, about approaches to "civility" and the general sense of a project space/content creator dichotomy; I guess I never did get back to that thread, but there's more to the question than "why can't people just be civil?" and I hope that's reflected in Liz's admin decision-making. Opabinia regalis (talk) 19:27, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
39. Support courteous and clear when it comes to policies and guidelines as far as I can tell. Content creation is now secondary as far as admins are concerned, indeed admins who create content are treated worse than those who just make sysop edits. Liz is a great candidate, and in time when editors like her are hard to come by, we should jump at the chance of allowing her to continue to improve Wikipedia. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:48, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
40. Support - Incredibly qualified for the tools, level-headed and has an eye for doing right when needed. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 21:01, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
41. Support Of course. Ticks all the boxes. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 21:28, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
42. Support per nigh superhuman diplomacy skills. Brustopher (talk) 21:43, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
43. Support No concerns. Widr (talk) 21:45, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
44. Nothing to add that hasn't already been said more eloquently than I could manage. —Cryptic 22:16, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
45. Support Absolutely and with pleasure. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 22:40, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
46. Support Easy decision. Liz has the kind of experience and temperament I'd want in an admin. ~Adjwilley (talk) 23:02, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
47. Well qualified, no significant issues, asks good and sensible questions to inform herself. Looking forward to having another woman on the admin team. Risker (talk) 23:10, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
48. Support, subject to change based on responses to questions and further investigations. My several interactions with Liz and the times I had noticed him or her editing were all positive. Indeed I had thought that he or she was already an admin, and a good one. DES ^(talk) 23:14, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
49. Support - Knows policy well. Works many areas. Friendly and helpful. Best of all, great AfD numbers. Plus, great nominators who do their research. She could be half as good as she is and I'd still support. She is deep into "of course!" territory. Unless skeletons pop out of closets, like some old, massive copyvio spree, Liz has my full support. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:15, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
50. Support I have found nothing that would lead me to believe this individual would abuse the tools. They pass my checks and would be an excellent addition to the team, I think. Good luck. --ceradon (talk • contribs) 23:19, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
51. Support Seems like a good candidate. I don't view content creation as the only critical criteria, and a small army of useful gnome-admins would benefit the project greatly. AliveFreeHappy (talk) 23:27, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
52. Support. Fully qualified candidate. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:39, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
53. This easily could have happened a while ago. Courcelles (talk) 23:41, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
54. Support: everytime I've seen Liz in action, she seems reasonable and able to keep her cool. She puts in a huge amount of effort and is not likely to cause any major issues or drama. Content creation concern is overrated: it takes all sorts to keep Wikipedia running. Give her the mop already. —Tom Morris (talk) 23:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
55. Support. It's about time this was posted. People have been trying to convince Liz to run for what seems like ages. Great temperament, experience, and knowledge of policy. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:48, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
56. Support Good candidates like Liz don't come along all that often. A valuable contributor to the project, whose history indicates she will be a thoughtful admin. Moriori (talk) 23:49, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
57. Support I am not a content creation hawk, but I normally like to see some, and there really isn't any here. That said, her record is otherwise so strong that I think we can overlook that admitted shortcoming. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:51, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
58. Support - Liz has been a great contributor to the project, especially in her work as a clerk at ArbCom. For an admin candidate who wants to do work in deletion, her PROD logs and AfD logs look good. There are a couple handfuls of blue links in her CSD log, but a lot of them are for articles that have since been recreated or were reasonable to tag in the state that they were in when she tagged them, so I have no concerns there. Everything else so far looks good, and the answers to the questions have been satisfactory. Inks.LWC (talk) 00:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
59. Support wikignomes often make good admins , if they;'re aware of content problems, and the difficulties contributors have. I think she understand both of them. DGG ( talk ) 00:57, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
60. Excellent candidate; I am happy to support. -- Diannaa (talk) 01:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
61. Support embodies the spirit of Wikipedia. Jytdog (talk) 01:11, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
62. Support: yes, yes. Wasn't sure I was going to take a side in this one, but I just noticed something you did to greatly encourage an editor (a small critter...). I have sometimes encountered stormy weather here on English and taken my cat alter-ego into hiding for a bit, but I know I have a few admins in my corner because they are kind and helpful and encouraging. To me, for the work of anyone who volunteers to take on the duties of an admin, temperament rules way above any other qualification. Many best wishes. Fylbecatulous talk 01:16, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
63. Support – No concerns. A voice of common sense. EdJohnston (talk) 01:19, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
64. Support. Generally clueful. I have no problem with your sabbatical from writing, sounds like you've more than earned it. - Dank (push to talk) 02:22, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
65. Support - Good temperament, helpful, knows policy, good analyst of deletion candidates and issues. Experience and willingness to work in the "backwaters", with a good record, is a plus. Gnomish work is good experience for much of the administrative work that needs to be done. Has clue which mitigates content creation concerns. Great candidate. Donner60 (talk) 02:56, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
66. Support - user seems sensible and strongly suited to adminship, which is a rare enough trait that a shortage of content creation shouldn't be disqualifying in this case. Diffs show that maybe a year ago they didn't know much about certain procedures, but seems to learn quickly. Geogene (talk) 03:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
67. Support I have agreed with about 99% of everything I have seen Liz say here on Wikipedia. Yes, I wish that she had created more content, since this is after all a project to build an encyclopedia. But we need "support staff" and everything I have seen about her indicates that she is an excellent candidate for administrator. As for her comment on Eric's talk page, we all know that he is very far from the typical content creator. He is an outlier and he is "special". Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:32, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
68. Support - I love the nominations that I don't even have to do research on. No concerns whatsoever. Carrite (talk) 03:59, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
69. Support - I have only positive impressions of her contributions to discussions and demonstrated understanding of community norms. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 04:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
70. Support no reason to think this user would abuse the tools. --rogerd (talk) 04:10, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
71. Support – A clueful candidate, well-versed in policy. gobonobo ^{+ c} 06:43, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
72. Support - Whenever I have seen Liz's signature in a discussion at WP:ANI, it has always been preceded by an intelligent, diplomatic, and helpful comment. So I am completely confident she has the required skill and judgement to assist productive editors' collaboration in an admin capacity. Burninthruthesky (talk) 06:58, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
73. Support - "duh". In more explanatory terms, candidate is trusted, versed in policy, and a pleasure to work with as an arbitration clerk. No reason to oppose. Certainly will be a net positive. L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 07:12, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
74. Support, of course. Graham87 08:21, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
75. Support - Level-headed and hard-working. I've been watching Liz' edits from the sidelines for a few months now. This RfA was an inevitability and I'll gladly give my support. -Thibbs (talk) 10:40, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
76. Support: Meets my baselines with their activity in arbitration matters, and rumour has it that AE needs more admin attention, so that would be a good reason for seeking the mop besides. While some of their AfD votes/nominations are sort of weak, it's not enough of an issue to justify an "oppose". Behaviour and experience also seem to fit the mold. Putting some work in article writing would be good, but not enough of an issue to justify an "oppose" from me either. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:14, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
77. Support. Rzuwig^► 11:37, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
78. Support - echoing Opabinia. Alakzi (talk) 12:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
79. Support - We need *more* pro-civility admins, as the current admin pool have turned one of the five pillars into a joke that is occasionally nodded at depending on their personal relationship to the subject. Since its practically impossible to remove admins for failing to uphold standards, the only other option is to promote admins who will. I would prefer more experience in resolving content disputes/mediation between editors however and I feel the oppose's below have merit (for similar reasons) Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:24, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
80. Support- it seems to have become fashionable lately to heap contempt on wikignomes. I don't know what's sillier, the idea that one cannot behave responsibly towards people who do some task if you haven't done that task yourself, or the notion that wikignoming isn't content work. I have seen nothing from this candidate to suggest she would be a bad admin. Quite the opposite, in fact. Reyk _YO! 13:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
81. Support. Level-headed, civil, knows policies, experienced. That's all I need to see. More than qualified for adminship. Useight's Public Sock (talk) 14:16, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
82. Support, as Liz is a mire than qualified editor. Epic Genius (talk) 14:29, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
83. Support Liz is exactly the type of person we need in our admin corps. Thanks for running! RO^(talk) 15:04, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
84. Support She should have been an admin long ago. Her work with new users is amazing and shows she will never become an abusive admin. Her work as a ArbCom clerk shows good knowledge of policy. Happy Squirrel (talk) 15:35, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
85. Support Usually, I want to see some content work from candidates. This is mostly because I would like an admin candidate to have a feel for how conflicts may arise from our content policies and guidelines. However, I'll make an exception when I see someone who has demonstrated an strong understanding of how WP works in their comments. Liz has done that. Liz also exemplifies a de-escalation approach to disputes, which is sorely needed at venues like ANI. She seems to focus on underlying issues, and tries to defuse interpersonal tensions. I have never seen an intemperate comment from her, despite the fact that she gets involved in some very heated areas of dispute. The Interior (Talk) 16:35, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
86. Support Liz is asked below what she is here for, if not for creating content. I can't answer for her, but I came here specifically to remove some rubbish, and have been doing it for over seven years now. I've come across Liz here several times, and wondered why she didn't have a mop. Looks like a good candidate to me. Peridon (talk) 17:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
87. Support I am disgusted with the apparent growing attitude that people must be content creators otherwise they're just not here to build the encyclopedia. Therefore, they are something bad. Good lord open your eyes. This project requires an ENORMOUS amount of work that does NOT entail content creation. Some people just aren't content creators, and never will be. If this were not the case, we would only have authors, and every editor position in the world would be vacant. Just because you aren't a content creator doesn't mean you somehow can't be trusted with the tools. This nominee's mainspace edits comprise more than 1/4th of their edits. As a percentage, this is higher than half of ArbCom. I guess ArbCom can't be trusted either, huh? Afterall, they are not here to build the encyclopedia. <facepalm>. Can anyone...ANYONE...come up with anything actually BAD this editor has EVER done? Come on...just one thing. ANYONE??? What, no takers? I'm waiting... --Hammersoft (talk) 17:22, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

    A quick pop onto your user page certainly gives me the impression you prefer to start fights than write an encyclopedia! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:38, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

    Just because you aren't a content creator doesn't mean you somehow can't be trusted with the tools. Not everyone believes as you do. It's that anti-hive mind problem that content creators tend to have. The fact that her mainspace edits are higher than ArbCom is an indictment of ArbCom, not a positive for her. Finally, for something bad she's done? Look at the diffs (below) showing her poor attitude towards content creators. That's BAD. Satisfied? GregJackP Boomer! 19:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

88. Support Frequently appears to be the most levelheaded person in a given conversation, and is clearly well versed in policy. Those are prime admin qualifications.-- Elmidae (talk) 18:35, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
89. Support. No problem! Malinaccier (talk) 18:49, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
90. If I was able to pick any editor to be an admin, it would've been Liz hands down. And, as a side-note, if admins had to be content creators we'd have next to no good admins and Wikipedia would slowly descend into a hell of vandals and chaos. Just my two cents. Kharkiv07 (T) 19:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
91. Support I forgot that she wasn't already an admin because of the way that handles the work as ArbCom clerk. And while I like to encourage everyone to add content, some people find doing other types of volunteer work for Wikipedia to be their primary focus, and that is fine. Sydney Poore/FloNight♥♥♥♥ 19:21, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
92. Support only caution is lack of featured content. But that is more than made up for all the work done in helping the smooth running of the project. With admins we need people who do administrative tasks. Go New Jersey Liz! --Jules (Mrjulesd) 19:25, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
93. Support, suitable candidate, I see no reason to oppose. I have always seen featured content as more of a nice to have, rather than a mandate for administrative candidates. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 19:28, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
94. Support: candidate has a very positive reputation (which is well-deserved) and gave good answers to the questions. Spot checks turn up nothing bad. Others are entitled to their opinions on whether content creation is important for an admin but I don't consider it crucial or necessary in this case. I agree with Liz's statement, "it helps the project if editors with a variety of different perspectives and experience participate in deletion discussions" and think it's implied that these editors should be well-versed in policy or at the very least know what they're talking about. It seems like a comment in the same vein as if I were to say "I wish there were more female admins": it means I want the gender gap to lessen, not that I want to promote underqualified users solely because they are female. The SPI comments were a while ago and I don't really consider them to be an issue in the first place; anyway, I'd rather have an admin that has too much AGF than too much BITE. — Bilorv_(talk)^(c)(e) 21:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
95. Support I have seen her around, and have interacted with her on several occasions. I am confident that she will be a good admin. --Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 21:54, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
96. Support, I´m a content creator (mainly), but I highly appreciate those folks who do the "rest" of the work here, and Liz seems definitely sensible enough to trust with the tools, Huldra (talk) 22:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
97. Support Liz's contributions have overall been excellent, and exactly what Wikipedia needs in an admin. Gnomes are the editors who can make good use of the tools, content creation is irrelevant in RfA. The fact that Liz isn't an admin already is a testament to the failure of this process. Winner 42 Talk to me! 22:11, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
98. Support per Worm That Turned's nomination.-gadfium 22:41, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
99. Support absolutely. KrakatoaKatie 22:55, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
100. Support based primarily on previous observations of the editor. WP:RFX100. --j⚛e decker^talk 23:18, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
101. Support I think is an excellent move...Modernist (talk) 23:31, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
102. Support. I understand concerns about minimal content creation. At the same time, she is a highly experienced user with a great reputation, and holds positions requiring reliability and trust. Wikipedia needs users to create content, but it also needs users who will work to maintain that content. North of Eden (talk) 00:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
103. Support. Saw her in the Recent Changes a lot, and all I've seen of her has been constructive. Dakar (talk) 00:30, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
104. Support because I see no good reason not to. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:06, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
105. Support - While I agree with GregJackP that it's good to have some GAs and FAs under your belt, you have done some incredible maintenance work on this site, including as an ArbCom clerk. With that, I believe that you can be trusted with the tools. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 01:36, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
106. Support. She has a lot of experience. As an SPI Clerk, I met her at some sockpuppet investigations. She was very helpful. Vanjagenije (talk) 02:03, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
107. Support, no major issues. Nakon 02:34, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
108. Support Liz is already a great member of the administrative team here and has been for quite some time. I think formally granting her the tools will allow her to be even more helpful around here and I look forward to having her on the team! I also wholeheartedly endorse Hammersoft's comments above. While content writers are the lifeblood of the encyclopedia, the non-content writers that keep the project running are its backbone. Swarm ^{we ♥ our hive} 03:10, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
109. I have little to add that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say that Reyk, Swarm, and Hammersoft nailed it. --Dylan620 ^{(I'm all ears)} 03:51, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
110. Support - Seems an ideal candidate. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:42, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
111. Support – I've never interacted with her, but looking through her contribs, she's a great editor who would make a great admin. --A guy saved by Jesus (talk) 05:55, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
112. I'll support, because I think that Liz will make a good admin, but there are some wise words in the 'oppose' and 'neutral' sections below - I think it would be a good idea for the candidate to pay heed to them. Good luck! — sparklism ^hey! 07:26, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
113. Support Strong on policy, brings a valuable perspective. Techtacular (talk) 11:20, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
114. Support - a sensible and experienced editor.—Anne Delong (talk) 13:50, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
115. Support - Liz is one of those people who isn't ashamed to ask for advice when necessary, sometimes on my own talk page. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:13, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
116. Obvious support - I have been seeing Liz around at ANI and AFD (and maybe AN3 as well?) and all I have to say is that they do a good job. --TL22 (talk) 15:19, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
117. Of course support - I've come across Liz here and there and she has always been a level-headed voice of reason (and policy where required) in places that attract drama. I was really tempted to oppose because I was really sure you were already an admin, and seeing your name in the RfA list made me spill my coffee. I really needed that coffee today. Winner 42 hits the nail on the head - that you're not already an admin shows the failure of this forum and the community at promoting the good candidates to administrative duties. You'll be a fine admin, I have no doubt. Good luck! Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:29, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
118. Long overdue. It's an honour to have the opportunity to support this candidate. Kurtis ^(talk) 16:53, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
119. Support - Myopic complaints about the candidate lacking article creation don't cut it for me. Adminship isn't an elite club for academics, it's a trust position. I trust Liz with der toolz for being a helpful and level-headed gnome. Her adminship will free up more time for the editors who were born with FA writing talents. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:06, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
120. Support Absolutely. I am not usually comfortable supporting those without large content contributions, but Liz' track record is phenomenal, and I have no concerns whatsoever. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:07, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
121. Support - Per all above.--Infinite0694 (Talk) 17:17, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose I don't frequent this board and thought this editor was already an admin. She has no content writing experience to speak of and per this diff appears to have little understanding of the pressures some content editors endure. Most of the heated stuff starts about content but you only discover that when you've actually written something. J3Mrs (talk) 15:25, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
2. Oppose, no content creation. Has only created 2 articles (one since deleted), and, as far as I can tell, no GA/FA content. GregJackP Boomer! 17:37, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

   GregJackP, can you clarify why you believe that would make Liz unsuitable for an administrator role? Thank you. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 23:01, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

   Lack of content creation is often cited as an oppose reason, possibly because people want admins who understand content creators and are in tune with Wikipedia's overall mission. ~Adjwilley (talk) 23:04, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

   See User:GregJackP/Admin criteria. Too many admins are not content creators, as are too many arbs. The diff provided by J3Mrs explains my position perfectly. She has no clue about what content creators put up with. GregJackP Boomer! 01:11, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   It is my view that content creation is not a major part of an admin's job as an admin, and in particular by the time an article gets close to GA/FA, Admin intervention should be little needed. I have never done serious work on a FA, nor been the major person getting an article to GA level -- I usually stop about B-class or lower. But I think i've been a pretty good admin over the years. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply to others. DES ^(talk) 23:06, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

   You're the exception to the rule. GregJackP Boomer! 01:11, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   By that reasoning, a large number of active admins are "exceptions to the rule" -- many of us would not consider ourselves GA/FA/creators of article content... so I have a hard time of thinking of us as "exceptions". ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 03:16, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   You're making an assumption that I was placing DES in a class of many other admins. My comment was directed towards him individually. I know his admin work. I don't know yours, so I'm not making a comment on you, but a great majority of the admins do not under content creation. GregJackP Boomer! 04:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   As another of those "exceptions to the rule" admins let me say GregJack's opinion is not Wikipedia expectation. Our article Wikipedia Administrators -- a Wikipedia policy -- does not even mention article content, let alone demand it. Moriori (talk) 03:40, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   I will point out a second time that my exception to the rule comment was directed at DES individually. I don't know you or your admin work, so I'm not making a comment on whether you are an exception or not. As to the duties of being a admin including content creation, I never said that it did. I said that I would not support someone for admin who did not understand content creation. Whether they ever create another quality bit of content after they become an admin is not material nor relevant to my grounds for supporting or not supporting their candidacy. Look, I get that admins without a background in content creation don't like my position, but it is my position, and I should not be ganged up on every time I express my opinion at an RfA—unless only a hive mentality is allowed at WP. GregJackP Boomer! 04:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   You never said you “would not support someone for admin who did not understand content creation.” You unambiguously wrote “no content creation” in your No 2 oppose above, and that's what I commented on, saying it is not Wikipedia expectation. Agreed, you have a position and you are perfectly entitled to do so, but it is at odds with the nearly 100 people (so far) who have supported this RfA for Liz. Consider that maybe it is you who is out of step here with the hive mind which includes “collective consciousness or collective intelligence”. Moriori (talk) 22:49, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   Do you understand that being part of a "hive mentality" was not meant to be a good thing for Wikipedia? That you think it is a good thing is not something I would be proud of. In any event, I don't care that 100 others have supported her, nor 1000. Unless she knows how to create content, she should not be an admin, in my opinion. Finally, if you want to comment further on it, do so elsewhere. I really don't care what your position on my criteria are. GregJackP Boomer! 01:07, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

   Comment: GregJackP: I understand where you are coming from, I am basically a content-creator myself. However, being a target of this joker for the last 5 years, I *so* do appreciate vandal-fighters and all those who do the "mopping-up" around here. I would not be around here any more if it were not for them, Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:57, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

3. Oppose I have to agree with GregJackP. If you are not creating content, then why are you here? Too many admins are not content creators, and even one arb who is not here to work on the encyclopaedia is one too many. The idea that GA is anywhere near FA is also kind of disturbing. So if you want to be an admin, I say, learn. I hate voting against someone, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   We are here to make sure good content stays that way. Or did you want to spend your time dealing with vandalism, spammers, editors who are here to push a viewpoint, editors who have no interest in following content guidelines, etc? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 16:25, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   Well, of course I would. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:29, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   I look forward to your increased participation in these areas. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 23:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   I'm sorry, I tried to ignore this comment, but I find it so utterly ridiculous that I just can't. "If you are not creating content, then why are you here?" I absolutely cannot in good faith believe that you've looked at Liz's 45,000 edits and came to the conclusion that she is somehow not here to build an encyclopedia. You decided that all 45000 edits were not helpful and Wikipedia would be just as fine without them? While content creation should be the primary concern of the Wikipedia community as a whole, belittling someone who primarily carries out important behind the scenes work that ensures the smooth running of the site is absurd. Sam Walton (talk) 10:35, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

4. Oppose Mainly per GregJackP. Clearly this one's going to pass, but I think it's important that the candidate understand that people do have concerns about their lack of content creation. I also remember seeing the comment highlighted by J3Mrs and cringing. Intothatdarkness 13:56, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
5. Oppose - Largely per GregJackP. I'm not even asking for an FA. All I want to see is one single GA-quality article put together at least in majority by the candidate. Reaper Eternal (talk) 16:14, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
6. Oppose. Liz has shown qualities that one hopes to avoid in admins: strong partisanship and a disinterest in examining evidence.

   • At this SPI, Liz came in with the preformed notion that the accused sockpuppeteer was being unfairly treated, and defended him on those grounds. She did not show an understanding of the actual evidence of sockpuppetry, nor did that appear to be a priority. The sockpuppeteer in question would later become a dedicated off-wiki harasser and serial sockpuppeteer, and would enshrine Liz's uninformed comments clearing him of sockpuppetry. I eventually wrote this supplement for those who (like Liz) somehow failed to process the (really quite obvious) evidence.
   • Liz similarly weighed in on another SPI case, defending the accused sockpuppeteer without looking at the evidence, even casting aspersions on the filer (me). Despite two admins affirming the sockpuppetry, and despite the sockpuppeteer being "strongly admonished for using an IP address to harass other users and waste the community's time",[2] Liz continued to defend him, claiming that he "has not abused sockpuppets".[3] She indicated no understanding of the level of disruption outlined in the SPI. (The sockpuppeteer had been bullying users through sockpuppets as a pretext for bringing an arbitration case on bullying, and later cited the same evidence in an ANI he brought.)
   • Liz's conclusions in these SPIs are starkly at odds with those of admins. While having a diversity of perspectives across administrators might be valued, not understanding and/or not looking at evidence isn't a "perspective" we should seek. Though I have not come across Liz much this past year, it would surprising for these problems to be corrected so quickly. (I did notice this no-explanation revert from April which seems suggestive of the partisanship of old.) In the now-likely event that Liz gains adminship, I hope she will recognize these problems and aim to do better.

   Manul ~ talk 17:02, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   Whoa, whoa, whoa. Defending people who you think are being treated unfairly is exactly what an admin should be doing. Even if it turns out that you're wrong and the user was socking, it's far better to give them a fair ear and find out they abused your trust than to follow the Banning Kulture and "hang 'em all, and let the devil sort them out"! Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:21, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   Reaper, the above was trimmed considerably from what it was, and stuff got lost in translation. Of course an initial stance of AGF is always correct. That's not the problem, here or ever. At some point one has to examine and apprehend the evidence, and that never happened, and that is the problem. It is the combination of partisanship and ongoing (not simply initial AGF) credulity that turned toxic in this case, with Liz supporting the harassing activities of this individual, applauding his polemics that attacked Wikipedia editors[4] and rationalizing his personal attacks.[5] While Liz is otherwise eager to denounce partisanship, she maintained extreme partisan stances that are contrary to the evidence. Those harassing polemics are rooted in the demonstrably false claim that this guy was not sockpuppeting. Manul ~ talk 18:24, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   Again, this is for something that happened 18+ months ago... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:32, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   The diff (above) depreciating the persecution of content creators was this month. GregJackP Boomer! 17:49, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   Well, the main point here is that that's not the main thrust of Manul's "oppose", which is instead the kerfuffles at SPI a year-and-a-half(-plus) ago. As to Liz's other comment that you are alluding to, I will leave it to other editors to draw their own conclusions... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:54, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

7. Oppose. I can't support this one based on my experiences with Liz, and that's a shame because we need more women admins. Unfortunately, she seems to spend her time on various talk pages and noticeboards, while content creation is minimal. I'm not a great believer in an admin having to have voluminous content creation, but there must be some working knowledge, and Liz seems to actively avoid the task: I've noticed a tendency on her part to put comments on article talk pages pointing out edits others should make, but only rarely does she simply make needed changes herself. She talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk, and that's not acceptable for an admin. --Drmargi (talk) 00:47, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

   With over 12,000 mainspace edits do you really think that is fair? --Jules (Mrjulesd) 07:21, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

8. Oppose. Sharing reasons already elucidated by others. This user seems to comment nearly everywhere, what is the point or value of that beyond ladder climbing? In areas where I've had concerns the candidate's shallow analyses have routinely disappointed. (Another admin added to the ranks ill-positioned to empathize w/ content creators' experiences?! Good going, folks.) IHTS (talk) 01:57, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
9. Oppose. I find disturbing most of Liz's answers to the questions, which show bias, insufficient logical thinking, short attention span, lacunae in knowledge of some typical situations during the editing gruntwork, and misconceptions of some roles of an admin. Clearly Liz knows all buzzwords about adminship, but I have serious doubts as to abilities to rein the ropes. (I do know that admins are live people and may err, but not that much.) I do have solid reasons for my opinion and will readily present them, if it can influence the vote balance. Otherwise I don't want to waste anyone's time. -M.Altenmann >t 05:52, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
10. This is surely going to pass, but I can't support this. I appreciate WTT's description of Liz's "empathy, understanding and helpfulness", but I've not seen any evidence of these qualities; I don't think I've ever seen Liz in any context other than hanging around contentious areas trying to pick fights. I also agree with the lack-of-content opposes (7.05% of her edits this year are to mainspace); to re-use a comment I made many years ago, I don't think editors who haven't had the experience of putting large amounts of work into an article, and/or defending their work against well-intentioned but wrong "improvements" or especially AFD, are in a position to empathise with quite why editors get so angry when their work's deleted and/or The Wrong Version gets protected, and I don't support users who don't add content to the mainspace being given powers to overrule those who do. – iridescent 09:07, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
11. Sorry. It's a marginal oppose from me. Were the numbers closer I might land elsewhere. The nominator says "I can't remember a time without seeing her name in conversations." That's not praise; it is an indictment. It is borne out by the lack of meaningful content contributions. And further borne out by weak AfD !votes - many of which are turning a 5-0 AfD into a 6-0 AfD or just plainly off the mark ([6]). I'm also annoyed by the nominators' disguising of the fact that the candidate has only been actively editing for about 15 months once you exclude wikibreaks (not "two years") and is currently only six months back from a long break. Comparatively that's not much experience: I'd be prepared to vote for someone with that level of experience but only with evidence of high competence. The evidence falls a bit short here. In this case I'd have wanted to see that short period be spent on activities that gain my confidence: content creation, more thoughtful AfD contributions, etc. --Mkativerata (talk) 09:10, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
12. Oppose - Not an easy call to make, given the numerous supporters, many of whom I have interacted with for years and deeply respect. And the candidate is also worthy of respect, having a reasonably even temperament− and has accomplished a fair amount in her time here. I find myself in agreement with her often in discussions, and in the philosophy of the encyclopedia. For me the objection is that the candidate simply does not have enough time here to be granted a lifetime adminship. I'd like to see another year before the extra buttons are granted. That said, I thank the candidate for service to date, and barring a dramatic turn in the consensus here, my congratulations and best wishes. Jusdafax 18:09, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

    Adminship is not granted for "a lifetime". Please see my post of 11:02, 4 July 2015 (UTC) at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship#Clarifying adminship. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:47, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

13. Oppose After reading a few more diffs, I had to realise that the comment I alluded to earlier was not a slip, but that Liz seems to have a "thing" about content editors, some kind of resentment/agenda - the relevant diffs are [7] and [8]. Added to that, there has been no direct response to the criticism in two days, which reflects very poorly in an RfA. I'm extremely sorry that I'm having to change my opinion about her on this basis, but we can't have someone working as sysop who has a vendetta against content creators. She absolutely must re-think her stance on this matter to be a positive asset as sysop. Samsara 19:05, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

    Samsara, I don't have a thing against content editors but I stand by this comment in the diff you shared: Undoubtedly, they contribute a lot to the project but admins shouldn't have different sets of standards, one for content contributors and one for everyone else. I do think that the policies and guidelines on Wikipedia should apply equally to everyone, whether they are creating articles, fighting vandalism, participating in deletion discussions or answering questions at the Teahouse.

    As for the comment on Eric Corbett's talk page, that was unnecessary needling on my part which I should have refrained from. That was not a typical talk page edit for me. But what I was highlighting was not ill feelings towards content creators but rebutting the viewpoint that they are singled out and persecuted. Content creators are highly valued on Wikipedia as can be seen by those who oppose my candidacy on the grounds that I've not created articles but have edited in other ways in main space.

    As for not providing a direct response to people who oppose, I knew that there would be editors who would oppose this RfA based on the editor experience and qualifications they value in administrator candidates. If anyone has a specific question for me, they can ask it in the question section above. I am only replying to your comment because of your complaint that I haven't responded. All I can say is that I have nothing but admiration for content creators, I'm just against having a hierarchy of value among editors where some are more equal than others. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:30, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

    Eric Corbett (to whom that thread refers to) is not exactly the poster boy for the type of content creator we should be swaddling in love and kisses. I'd be more impressed if you had produced a diff where Liz had a "thing" (whatever that is) for someone who has been slightly less of a massive emotional drain on the project over the years. I find it disingenuous that this is all you could come up with. Also, we tell candidates not to engage oppose !votes whenever possible to avoid drama, and yet you want her to respond to the criticisms? As in "please tell us why don't you love Eric Corbett"? The only thing a candidate should be responding to are the questions above. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 19:25, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

    You're not being a very good advocate. The goal was not to "come up with" something. Perhaps you might want to re-read what I wrote and moderate your response accordingly. Samsara 20:27, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

14. Oppose while having FA's or GA's is not a requirement to be a good admin, user has questionable judgement in AFD's as noted by Mkativerata, making me pessimistic about how she grasps the nuances and requirements of notability criteria. Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
15. Oppose mainly per Mkativerata in this section and Kraxler in the neutrals. There are some really, really questionable contributions at AfD that makes me question the wisdom of giving her the tools to delete articles. Frequent participation at the drama boards? Not a bonus. If she had stronger content I would support, but she's weak there too. AniMate 19:27, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutral. I generally don't like going neutral on RfAs because I prefer to come to a judgment one way or the other no matter how weak it is, but I can't make up my mind on this one. On one hand, Liz seems to be a very conscientious editor and seems to know policy like the back of her hand. On the other hand, I get the sense of a "civility police" attitude from the candidate, which I feel is one of the biggest problems currently with Wikipedia. The diff by J3Mrs is also concerning to me. I can't support because of this, but I can't oppose either, so hence I find myself here. StringTheory11 (t • c) 00:31, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   Civility is one of the WP:FIVEPILLARS. Are you suggesting it should not be enforced? Burninthruthesky (talk) 06:55, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

   If Wikipedia were an equitable community, civility violations would've been few and far between. When people feel like they're being treated unfairly or in a domineering way on a systematic basis, they become agitated and act erratically. The civility police only serve to exacerbate the situation. It is usually to everybody's interest to examine what it is that made an editor behave in a certain way than punish them for it. There are - of course - exceptions, such as threats of violence, which we can simply not tolerate. My 2p. Alakzi (talk) 11:53, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

2. Neutral - I've seen a bit of Liz's work at AfD lately, and I agree that there should be more participation in the discussions there, see Q 4. But AfD should not become an even bigger battlefield of users who WP:LIKE or WP:DONTLIKE certain subjects/subject areas. Liz says "...it helps the project if editors with a variety of different perspectives and experience participate in deletion discussions." Well, no, it would help the project if editors with a better knowledge of the notability and content guidelines would participate in deletion discussions. Although her overall record at AfD is ok, there are some weird !votes like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Touchsuite (note that IMDb is expressly mentioned in the guideline as unreliable); Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Byon Hee-jae (failure to observe WP:BEFORE); Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khyber Pakhtunkhwa local government elections 2015 and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cultural Beira (2nd nomination) (failure to understand the context of the content). I suggest to get a firmer grasp on guidelines and policy, and when in doubt, just don't opine. Good luck. Kraxler (talk) 03:14, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
3. Neutral leaning to oppose - I have deliberated over this and pondered the answers to my questions, but I don't have enough evidence to go either way on this. The supports worry me, many seem to be variants on I like her which aren't very helpful for people like me who are on the fence. The opposers, meanwhile, make fair and insightful comments. The complete vacuum of content creation is a major problem, I'm not fussed about GAs but a lack of any article work she's happy to have done is seriously worrying. She's made more edits to project space than article space, which leaves me uncomfortable. To avoid repeating myself I've cobbled together User:Ritchie333/Why admins should create content, so read that. The CSD logs are reasonably okay, but I spotted some howlers eg: Genevieve Lyons ("She worked with the BBC drama company"), Matthew Lintz (has notable relatives, generally good for a redirect per WP:BIO1E and WP:INHERIT) and Danny Winchell (has a reliable source). I'm sure she approaches everything with good faith and diligence, but can picture her making mistakes that will get covered up by "playing nice". As for "I guess ArbCom can't be trusted either, huh? Afterall, they are not here to build the encyclopedia" - well, no they're not - one only needs to refer back to Rich Farmbrough's recent RfA to see how Arbcom may not be as consistently perfect as some believe. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:22, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

   Neutral I've always noticed Liz around as handing out level-headed advice and actions, and had thought she was already an admin. I note that some are opposing based on a lack of content work. I think she has more than some others who've been opposed on this basis; for instance, she's responded to a lot of comments on the Gamergate article (I know there was bad blood, but I wasn't involved, so don't shoot me ;) ). I think the borderline derisive comment on content creators was uncalled for and perhaps not fully reflected on at the time. Admins ideally should refrain from taking cheap shots. I'll sit on the fence for now. Samsara 16:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC) Changed to oppose. Samsara 19:05, 30 July 2015 (UTC)