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Supporting connected standby

By Jonathan Corbet
January 15, 2014

linux.conf.au 2014
One of the first questions an experienced Linux user asks when evaluating a new laptop is: does suspend-to-RAM work properly? Over the years, suspend support has often been an area of difficulty for Linux users, but things have slowly gotten better thanks to hard work by a number of developers. Thus, one might conclude that few users will welcome the news that all of that work may soon go out the window as the result of hardware changes currently in the pipeline. Matthew Garrett took some time during the linux.conf.au 2014 Kernel miniconf to describe the upcoming "connected standby" mode and how the kernel might change to support it.

Ten years ago, Matthew said, the "horrific" advanced power management (APM) mechanism, which Linux developers had finally gotten to work reasonably well, was pushed aside in favor of ACPI. Supporting ACPI properly required a fair amount of time and effort, but, once again, kernel developers have managed to get it working, so, naturally, it's time for something else to come along. That something else is connected standby, which moves away from an explicit sleep state toward something that is part of the system idle state.

User expectations have changed, Matthew said, and it's often undesirable for a system to go into a hard sleep state at any time. Even when the user is elsewhere and power consumption should be minimized, machines still need [Matthew Garrett] to wake up, download email, respond to push notifications, and so on. In other words, the machine needs to always be running in some sense and able to respond to the world. Hardware manufacturers are responding by making it possible for idle systems to draw almost no power at all. They expect this mode to be used, as can be seen by the fact that machines that do not support the ACPI "S3" sleep state (a.k.a. suspend) at all will start shipping soon.

In theory, supporting these systems under Linux should be relatively easy; we just have to make sure that they get into (and stay in) a sufficiently idle state. But that, of course, is where things get difficult; anything that brings the system out of idle will consume power and defeat the purpose of the whole exercise. And, Matthew said, we still have a number of places where the system is indeed being awakened unnecessarily.

Within the kernel, he said, the read-copy-update (RCU) subsystem often seems to be doing mysterious things at strange times. But the real problems lie in user space, which still displays "often dreadful" wakeup behavior. A lot of problems got fixed when powertop became available, but others remain and, more importantly, user-space developers keep adding new code that wakes the system unnecessarily. And, unfortunately, there are way more user-space developers than kernel developers out there. As zombie movies have shown us over and over again, Matthew said, superior numbers will always triumph in the end.

Since we can't count on help from user space to make connected standby work properly, some other approach will be required. One brute-force solution would be to use the process freezer to just stop user space when the system wants to go into the suspend-like idle state. That would work, but it has a significant shortcoming: a frozen user space can't listen for or respond to events. If (important) things can't happen while the system is in the connected standby state, we have, once again, lost one of the advantages that connected standby is supposed to bring.

Perhaps that problem could be worked around by creating a special listener process that would remain runnable. That process would watch for events of interest, then wake other parts of the system when something comes in. But that solution, Matthew said, "sounds awful."

An alternative might be to make use of the kernel's timer slack mechanism. Timers at any level of the system are always allowed to expire later than the requested time; any number of events could cause a delay to happen. Timer slack is an explicit, intentional delay added to a timer to cause its expiration to coincide with the expiration of other timers in the system. It is thus a power-saving feature: having multiple timers go off at the same time requires fewer system wakeups than having each timer expire by itself.

Normally, timer-slack limits are measured in milliseconds at most; the connected standby case, instead, would take timer slack to a bit of an extreme. When the system is to go into the suspended state, the timer slack for most or all processes in the system is set to an infinite value. That means that no timer will ever wake the system from the suspended state; nothing will happen until some other kind of wakeup event (an interrupt, for example) comes along. Matthew said that he has played with this idea a bit; for the most part, things work better than one might expect with an infinite timer slack value. So this might be a viable path toward a solution.

That said, there are a few things that need to be worked out. A few timers turn out to be important and should not be delayed indefinitely. So it might make sense to limit the application of infinite timer slack to a subset of the processes in the system. One possible way to do that would be to add a control group controller for setting timer slack; this idea has come up in the past for other reasons, but has not been received well by the core kernel development community. Those developers see unwanted wakeups as a user-space problem that should be fixed there but, as Matthew dryly noted, they did not volunteer to actually do that work.

Your editor, feeling the need to play the devil's advocate, noted that the kernel contains an opportunistic suspend mechanism used to implement the Android wakelocks concept. Wakelocks were designed to solve a very similar problem: allowing the system to suspend itself in the face of poor application behavior. So why can't the wakelock mechanism be used here? Matthew's response was that wakelocks require that user-space programs be written with their use in mind; resources in an Android system often require that their use be tied to a wakelock. Classic Linux applications, instead, expect resources to be available all the time; they would have to be rewritten to work with wakelocks. Since, as has already been noted, rewriting all of user space is not really an option, wakelocks will not work in this situation.

So, despite the loose ends in need of tying down, timer slack still seems like the best solution to the problem. That said, Matthew would be delighted if somebody were to come up with a better idea. No such better ideas were on offer at the miniconf, so we are likely to see a push toward infinite timer slack in the relatively near future. Any opposition to a mechanism for system-wide timer-slack control may yet fade away when it becomes clear that there is no other viable way to make new systems suspend properly.

[Your editor would like to thank linux.conf.au for funding his travel to Perth].

Index entries for this article
KernelPower management
KernelSoftware suspend
Conferencelinux.conf.au/2014


to post comments

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 2:33 UTC (Thu) by a0393953@ti.com (guest, #74756) [Link] (1 responses)

As i read this, in addition to the opportunistic suspend that has already been pointed out, another thing that came to my mind was the deep idle states working in conjunction with runtime PM on the various ARM platforms (eg: OMAP). At a first glance, extending the fine grained power management techniques from the embedded world seems to be logical way to approach this. Why would that not work here?

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 4:22 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

Modern x86 supports similarly deep runtime PM states to ARM platforms, but you're still at the mercy of userspace not waking up sufficiently often that the benefits of those deep runtime states are lost.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 6:28 UTC (Thu) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (5 responses)

Honestly, I don't want to see the kernel suppressing wakeups from applications; I want to see the applications fixed to not wake up unnecessarily. Workarounds like massive timer slack are for proprietary, unfixable software.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 12:35 UTC (Thu) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (3 responses)

> Honestly, I don't want to see the kernel suppressing wakeups from applications; I want to see the applications fixed to not wake up unnecessarily.
Patches welcome.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 13:49 UTC (Thu) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link] (2 responses)

> Workarounds like massive timer slack are for proprietary, unfixable software.

Like Steam, which chews 15% of my CPU while idle. :(

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 14:36 UTC (Thu) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (1 responses)

That sounds like something Valve would be interested in. Have you reported it?

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 18:30 UTC (Thu) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link]

My laptop isn't able to run any of the games I own on Steam, so I haven't looked in to it in great detail. I only had the Steam client installed to use the IM service, which is no longer necessary now that it can be accessed via a web browser.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 16, 2014 15:45 UTC (Thu) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

It's true that workarounds in the kernel rather than requiring the world to be rebuilt and reformed to fit the kernel are a benefit to proprietary software, it's also a benefit to any end user software which isn't on a maintenance cycle where you just rebuild everything all the time.

superior numbers

Posted Jan 16, 2014 13:33 UTC (Thu) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]

"superior numbers will always triumph in the end"

This only works if individuals have at least some marginal effect. Fifty Zerglings is no more effective against a single Banshee than five. Zerglings can't hit things in the sky, and Banshees can hit things on the ground just fine.

Getting to a place where distributions treat "wakes up pointlessly" the same way they'd treat "Constantly writes to disk for no reason" would eliminate this problem. Even at the height of enthusiasm for powertop, I would see time and again wake-for-no-reason bugs closed WONTFIX because a maintainer said "I think what we do here is fine" and nobody from a major distro disagreed.

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 17, 2014 0:39 UTC (Fri) by Max.Hyre (subscriber, #1054) [Link] (12 responses)

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

How many people benefit from this twilight state? Why collect e-mail when I'm not here to read it? Are push notifications so fragile that if there's no one to hear it, it drops on the floor? I hope hibernation should always be an option---is there anything to stop the OS from stashing state and just shutting down regardless of the power-control system?

<curmudgeon>
I just got a 40" TV. It takes longer to start from ``power down'' (whatever that means to this gizmo) than any TV I've ever had. It can't even figure for itself how many pixels are in the signal---I have to push the @#$%%! ``size'' button to get the best use of the screen for different channels (and sometimes for different shows on the same channel).

Then there's my cell phone. Bad clarity, a pain to push those teeny buttons; do I _really_ need to be accessible 24/7? The wonderful new telephones they want me to get need wall power, so I can't use it during a power outage (hint: northeast U.S.) And now they're moving toward shutting down the switched-circuit network. All the jitter and dropped packets I want.

And the car manufacturers are boasting that they'll know where I am and how fast I'm going. And they've dispensed with toll-takers on a bridge hereabouts---just drive right through, we'll photograph your license plate and mail you a bill.
</curmudgeon>

Thanks, I needed to get that off my chest. I'll go back in my hole now.

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 17, 2014 4:03 UTC (Fri) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (6 responses)

> How many people benefit from this twilight state?

I wouldn't mind it. Wake-on-LAN is a pain in the ass if you don't have the MAC address written down somewhere (or aren't VPN'd in). I'd like to save on my electricity bill by twilighting[1] my server until some network activity comes in on some regular TCP port (I assume port knocking could be a trigger). The same with my desktop in case I failed to push a branch to the server, I can just poke it and SSH in.

> hibernation should always be an option

Is that even an option these days? I still can't hibernate my machines reliably (suspend works though; I really want the hybrid version).

> we'll photograph your license plate and mail you a bill.

Ha! As if. At least with EZPass (northeast US only?), it's a prepaid system that automatically refills when the account drops below $20 or so. You don't even own the gizmo (the Department of Transportation usually does), so if you lose it, you have to pay to replace the thing.

Not to mention that they know when you were at exit A and B…which figures to an average of 70mph so there will be a fine waiting for you when you get home too!

[1]I like the term :) .

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 17, 2014 23:16 UTC (Fri) by foom (subscriber, #14868) [Link] (1 responses)

"Not to mention that they know when you were at exit A and B…which figures to an average of 70mph so there will be a fine waiting for you when you get home too!"

They don't actually do that...

I think in MA, at least, they are prohibited by law from using math between toll plazas to determine average speed on the Mass Pike, although I don't have a reference for it.

Wait, what does this have to do with connected standby?

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 18, 2014 5:38 UTC (Sat) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

> on the Mass Pike,

I'm most familiar with PA/NY where it's mainly used for the PA turnpike and I-87/I-90 in NY. My parents got one recently and I heard it from Dad (I think?). In any case, Snopes says I am indeed wrong here[1].

> Wait, what does this have to do with connected standby?

Nothing; I was replying to his curmudgeon-y part of the comment.

[1]http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ezpass.asp

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 18, 2014 0:16 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (3 responses)

we'll photograph your license plate and mail you a bill.
Ha! As if. At least with EZPass (northeast US only?), it's a prepaid system that automatically refills when the account drops below $20 or so. You don't even own the gizmo ...

On the Golden Gate Bridge at San Francisco, there is no gizmo and no account. Couldn't be, because there are zero toll takers. You can't really block an important highway like this to visitors.

I can't find the "two steps back" in this.

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 18, 2014 5:41 UTC (Sat) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

> Golden Gate Bridge

If this was the bridge being referenced, fine. It just reminded me of EZPass and such.

> I can't find the "two steps back" in this.

I think that the "two steps back" is Max.Hyre referring to some of the longer term issues that arise with pervasive technology used without putting restrictions on it.

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 18, 2014 12:10 UTC (Sat) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> On the Golden Gate Bridge at San Francisco, there is no gizmo and no account. Couldn't be, because there are zero toll takers. You can't really block an important highway like this to visitors.

That's because the tolls are entirely electronic over the golden gate bridge, though they're only assessed in one direction. Incidentally, If you get a rental car in SFO it comes with such a "gizmo" needed to pay the tolls, and when you return the car all assessed tolls are added to your rental bill.

If you don't have a gizmo, they scan your license plate and send you a $25 penalty if you aren't registered in their system somehow (with a 48-hour grace period in case you accidentally get stuck crossing the bridge, it happens..)

http://goldengate.org/tolls/

Why is it always one step forward and two steps back?

Posted Jan 18, 2014 19:32 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link]

If you don't have a gizmo, they scan your license plate and send you a $25 penalty if you aren't registered in their system somehow (with a 48-hour grace period in case you accidentally get stuck crossing the bridge, it happens..)

I believe you're mistaken about that. It sounds like you're describing bridges that have toll takers, but the driver blows right through (either the toll taker lane or the electronic lane without the gizmo).

According to the page you reference in your comment, if you drive across the Golden Gate Bridge without an electronic payment gizmo or an account, you get a bill in the mail for the toll alone, just as described in the original post. If you pay that bill, there is no penalty.

How many people benefit from this twilight state?

Posted Jan 23, 2014 17:28 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (4 responses)

Considering I've had sleep states corrupt my data ...

If I'm doing a *move* across the network, I have had the sending system fall asleep, and then when it wakes it continues (or crashes) but in the process it deletes a lot of files that didn't successfully transfer :-( I'm guessing the move got cached in ram, then got dropped/lost while sleeping.

Seeing as I often set up a transfer that might take an hour or so, and then walk away, I don't want the system falling asleep after five minutes ... it's a right bl**dy pain to have to keep going back to the system to press a couple of keys to stop it suspending ...

Cheers,
Wol

How many people benefit from this twilight state?

Posted Jan 23, 2014 17:47 UTC (Thu) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (3 responses)

systemd-inhibit --what sleep --why "data loss prevention" scp here there:path

How many people benefit from this twilight state?

Posted Jan 23, 2014 21:41 UTC (Thu) by hummassa (guest, #307) [Link] (2 responses)

maybe it would be convenient to
$ alias nohup='systemd-inhibit --what sleep --why "data loss prevention" '

How many people benefit from this twilight state?

Posted Jan 23, 2014 21:45 UTC (Thu) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (1 responses)

I'd go with "nodoz" since your alias is quite different than what "nohup" does.

How many people benefit from this twilight state?

Posted Jan 23, 2014 23:19 UTC (Thu) by hummassa (guest, #307) [Link]

Yeah, you are absolutely right.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 17, 2014 10:21 UTC (Fri) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (9 responses)

> A lot of problems got fixed when powertop became available, but others remain and, more importantly, user-space developers keep adding new code that wakes the system unnecessarily. And, unfortunately, there are way more user-space developers than kernel developers out there. As zombie movies have shown us over and over again, Matthew said, superior numbers will always triumph in the end.

powertop is the proof that zombie movies are wrong and that "Name and Shame" is enough to solve this problem. Just do it again.

Yes, there always be applications behaving badly. But no one cares about all applications in the world. People only care about THEIR applications running on THEIR system! So the only thing required to solve this problem is this: when I open my laptop again after a night of connected standby, it shows me the following pop-up:

"Good morning. Here is the list of applications which were busy draining your battery last night:
- Steam 65%
- Chrome 20%
- etc."

Basically just a good Battery Monitor. Hopefully a better one than the built-in Android one https://plus.google.com/+SvenKnispel/posts/ReLvz6KJwG5

Then the next things that happen are:

1. Every single forum on the internet is full of advice saying "Don't forget to shutdown Steam/Chrome/etc. to save your battery"
2. Valve/Google/etc. is pissed off because they want to be part of the new Connected Standby fanciness so they go and fix the problem by supported it properly.

Problem solved.

It's funny how engineers can be obsessed with finding silver bullet solutions and not interested in providing nice, good, synthetic feedback to users (which is admittedly not that easy). Wait... communicating with people? Are you crazy? I'd much rather stare at my screen for 70 hours a week, why did you think I became a software engineer? ;-)

Another striking example: network engineers and bufferbloat. While MTR on Linux offers 85% of the solution to bufferbloat no one bothered yet implementing something similar on Windows or in a web browser (hello speedtest.net?)

Well done powertop (and every other battery monitor in the world) for being different and proving that "Name and Shame" Just Works.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 20, 2014 2:14 UTC (Mon) by aquasync (guest, #26654) [Link]

Android also has quite nice diagnostics for showing data usage on a per-app basis. Getting per-app data, battery etc stats on desktop linux in an easy-to-consume format would be great.

Presumably with all the focus on "covergence", it'll happen soon.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 24, 2014 11:00 UTC (Fri) by javispedro (guest, #83660) [Link] (6 responses)

Devices such as the Nokia N9 have proven that it is possible to create a system without suspend or mandatory "infinite" timer slack and yet have good battery life (better than equivalent wakelock based systems at least).

The "just fix all bad programs" solution is not as insurmountable as the article author thinks it is.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 24, 2014 14:54 UTC (Fri) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link] (5 responses)

The N9, for which every app was written from scratch with specific power/performance targets, yes. If your app used too much power, someone stood over your desk and yelled at you until it didn't; not really an applicable solution for the general case.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 24, 2014 18:34 UTC (Fri) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (4 responses)

Publicly naming and shaming can work at least as well as yelling at someone's desk; there is plenty of evidence of that.

Such yelling does not always work; I'm sure most of us have evidence of this, too :-)

Moreover, on a laptop/desktop it is much more common for users to explicitly quit applications.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 24, 2014 19:05 UTC (Fri) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (3 responses)

> Such yelling does not always work; I'm sure most of us have evidence of this, too :-)

If someone starts yelling at me about how my Libre/OpenSource software is flawed and how I should re-do everything, unless they're paying me, they will get drop-kicked out the nearest airlock along with a copy of the standard "This program is distributed in the hope it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE" disclaimer.

Now I realize that "yelling" and "shaming" in this case was said more tongue-in-cheek, but the level of sheer entitlement some folks expect from other people's time is often quite galling. Asking politely is far more likely to get results than demanding...

Going back further, the critical element of the highly productive "naming and shaming" that powertop generated was that powertop provided a simple way to quantify the problem, providing concrete evidence that, say, application XYZ was misbehaving.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 24, 2014 19:28 UTC (Fri) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link] (2 responses)

> Going back further, the critical element of the highly productive "naming and shaming" that powertop generated was that powertop provided a simple way to quantify the problem, providing concrete evidence that, say, application XYZ was misbehaving.

I don't think these stats are in GNOME System Monitor yet but on Mac OS X these kinds of stats just landed in Apple Activity Monitor so they could start the naming and shaming process for Mac applications. It would be nice to put these stats in the common GUI system monitors because then they are visible to a wider audience and there is more pressure from users to fix applications.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 26, 2014 3:56 UTC (Sun) by javispedro (guest, #83660) [Link] (1 responses)

I am quite sure gnome-power-manager displayed wakeup stats at some point. However, some "cooking" was required to make sense of them.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 26, 2014 10:35 UTC (Sun) by Darkmere (subscriber, #53695) [Link]

gnome-power-statistics is the tool you're thinking of, part of gnome power manager, yes.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 26, 2014 20:57 UTC (Sun) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

Speaking of monitoring, naming and shaming I feel the need to name two other tools:

- Windows' resmon.exe (perfmon.exe). Not perfect but stunningly good + it's built-in! The very first port of call for your Grand-Ma or "Oh, you work in IT?" support sessions on the WE. It's not perfect mainly because tracking down services is not very straight forward.

- While it's nowhere near as useful and simple as MTR to demonstrate bufferbloat, netalyzr goes some way. And it shows a lot of other good stuff, too. And it runs in a browser, which means unlike MTR, it runs on Windows and Mac.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 17, 2014 10:56 UTC (Fri) by iq-0 (subscriber, #36655) [Link] (3 responses)

I think the solution shouldn't be too tough:
- Old programs don't benefit and are all treated with indefinite slack
- Programs can explicitly set their max slack
- Include an option to "inherit" this slack
- The max slack for a program can be adjusted via /proc or something likewise (like misc priorities and affinities also can)

Now old programs don't get to run (like with suspend-to-ram) and programs that need to run can adjust it themselves. The user can always manually adjust this if/when needed and the distro can fix it by including a default "slack" for certain programs without modifying them using a "settimerslack" tool during invocation, like they can already do for nice/ionice/...) just prepend the invocation with a default maximum slack of 1 hour and your calendar app will at least every hour get to sync it's calendars...

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 17, 2014 20:28 UTC (Fri) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link] (2 responses)

Infinite slack is essentially what happens now with suspend. The application does a sleep/select/poll/whatever and all of a sudden it's several hours later. Any application which doesn't deal with that properly has long been fixed.

I think it's a good solution.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 26, 2014 4:53 UTC (Sun) by kevinm (guest, #69913) [Link] (1 responses)

Not necessarily. It's no surprise if I wake my machine from standby and find that my IRC session has pinged out - but it would be a real annoyance if the same thing happens just because I haven't touched the machine for 5 minutes.

Supporting connected standby

Posted Jan 27, 2014 9:49 UTC (Mon) by iq-0 (subscriber, #36655) [Link]

That's a different case since you're talking about network interactions with an outside system. On IRC you'd timeout just if you don't respond in a timely matter to the server's ping. This should not be timer slack related.

The other case would be where you use SSH to login on a server and attach a screen session which contains your IRC client. In that case you'd probably want to enable protocol keepalive and the ssh client should be fixed to set an appropriate timer slack (or a workaround should be set in place until it's fixed). And of course data received from the server should still be handled normally since that wouldn't be subject to the infinite timer slack.

Although the timer slack could be considered infinite in most cases that means that it will probably be coalesced with another timer expiring around that time. One could even imagine a sort of master "max timer slack" setting that would ensure that the default "infinite timer slack" for a certains system would ensure that it would at still be processed in X time after the first such timer expired.
Many (unfixed) programs wouldn't necessarily degrade in functionality if they'd wake up at least within 1 minute or even after 5 minutes. This global max timer slack would thus enable the user/distribution to set an acceptable timer slack depending on the type of device and current status.

This is a solution which lacks a problem.

Posted Jan 20, 2014 13:15 UTC (Mon) by davecb (subscriber, #1574) [Link] (2 responses)

I don't use a machine for notifications when the machine is suspended. Indeed, I doubt I'm even near it when it's suspended.

I do want it to "hit the ground running" when I turn it on, so apps that get messages while suspended, such as email, messaging and calendars, should become (more) suspend-aware.

Push notifications like messaging and (server-side) smtp mail could benefit from connected standby, but only moderately: there's lots of time to get up to speed while I'm reading the first message/email/whatever.

This is a genuinely good idea for a phone, or a Dick Tracy wristwatch radio, but a solution looking in vain for a problem on a laptop or desktop.

This is a solution which lacks a problem.

Posted Jan 26, 2014 20:45 UTC (Sun) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (1 responses)

> Push notifications like messaging and (server-side) smtp mail could benefit from connected standby, but only moderately: there's lots of time to get up to speed while I'm reading the first message/email/whatever.

You are assuming you are on line everywhere all the time. On our phones we appreciate having everything always synced and reasonably up to date even when we have no connectivity.

> This is a genuinely good idea for a phone, or a Dick Tracy wristwatch radio, but a solution looking in vain for a problem on a laptop or desktop.

The lines are blurring between phones, tablets, 2-in-1, chromebooks,... eventually I suspect systems will be more defined by how we use them rather than by whatever sticker was put on them in the shop. In this respect: implement Connected Standby everywhere and let the users decide if they need or not.

This is a solution which lacks a problem.

Posted Jan 26, 2014 23:31 UTC (Sun) by davecb (subscriber, #1574) [Link]

Actually I'm not assuming I'm on line everywhere and always: I'm assuming I'm the reverse.

As to devices, I quite agree with you: let me make it a little stronger, in fact...

I speculate my wristwatch will be on-line all the time, and probably also contain at least the checksums for my private keys. That in effect is what makes it a wristwatch.

The strap that I use to firmly attach it to me defines it's use, not the label on it. The form factor also has a fair bit to do with it, but the innards are mostly phone bits. Probably from the phone a friend's daughter had, which I mistook for a brooch.

Similarly the phone is defined by my either holding it to my head, or by the form factor of the stargate/"person of interest" earphone it drives. The laptop is the thing big enough for a keyboard that I can actually type on, so it's used when I want to type more than a one-liner.

That leaves current (largish) phones and various sizes of pad for short messages, IM and one-liner emails.

They all overlap somewhere, courtesy of Linux.

--dave


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