台灣大學政治學系中國大陸暨兩岸關係教學與研究中心 「中國學的知識社群」計畫 MEMORY OF BRAZILIAN SYNOLOGY Interview Schedule 台 灣 大 學 政 治 學 系 中 國 大 陸 暨 兩 岸 關 係 教 學 與 研 究 中 心 What follows now is the script of our interviews carried out in Brazil, seeking to gather experiences, impressions and opinions about Sinology in Brazil and its participation in this field. This structure was adapted from the oral interview script – a modality that unfortunately we could not perform at that time for health and logistical reasons, among other reasons. We seek an overview of the personal and educational trajectory; next, what led to the study of China, and from what aspect; finally, some of the academic and personal opinions about Sinology in Brazil and its future. It was not necessary to answer all the questions, but if possible, to form a scenario of the personal trajectory, academic performance and vision of Sinology . We allow for less formal language, telling personal stories and expressing opinions. There was no set size for each answer, you could use as much space as you want. André Bueno Prof. adj. Eastern History UERJ/Brazil Coord. Project Orientalism INTERVIEW Full name and birthday Bony Schachter – August 13, 1985 Family history details (including family history, spouse and family of spouse, siblings and children). I was born in the state of Rio de Janeiro (Duque de Caxias, national capital of Candomblé) and grew up in the city of Rio de Janeiro. More specifically, I was raised in the splendid area of Copacabana (Brazilian jiu-jitsu capital of the world), where the days are sunny and the people exude beauty. Rio de Janeiro is also a melting pot where various religious cultures mix and coexist. Religions that have historically been part of the Brazilian cultural scene for centuries, such as Catholicism and Afro-Brazilian religions, coexist with religious cultures brought by European and Asian immigrants, such as Judaism, Buddhism and Taoism. I am a product of this complex scenario. My own family makeup is a reflection of this larger picture. Having been the son of parents whose cultural matrices were completely different, I was exposed from an early age to a wide variety of religious cultures, including Judaism, Christianity, Afro-Brazilian religions and Spiritism (Kardecism). This undoubtedly played a fundamental role in my broad interest in religion and ritual, which from an early age are the themes that guide my sinological research. The religious dramas and rituals of the Chinese are universal and interest humanity as a whole. Details of school experiences (from preschool to graduate school). 台 灣 大 學 政 治 學 系 中 國 大 陸 暨 兩 岸 關 係 教 學 與 研 究 中 心 I was born to a “médium de cabeça” mother.1 My father is Jewish. I was initially educated at a Jewish school in Botafogo. During this formative period, I had my first contact with a foreign language. This language was not English, but Hebrew. I still remember two key aspects of such learning. The first aspect is religious learning, since Hebrew was taught to us primarily as a liturgical language. The second aspect has to do with academic life. We, as children, were exposed to the study of the Jewish holy scriptures in their original language. This experience must have contributed greatly to my future curiosity about non-European languages. I am very proud of my Jewish and non-Jewish roots. My survivability, however, is purely Jewish. I entered several higher courses, passing through Biology, Law and Design, before arriving in the field of History, studying Art History at UERJ. During the second year of the course, I developed a strong interest in classical Chinese. So I began to study both Classical Chinese and Mandarin simultaneously. Eventually, I majored in Art History with a thesis on Daoist talismans in a Song Dynasty scripture. Even at that moment, I was sure that I should seek my training in China. During my Master's at UERJ, I had the opportunity to travel to China. Once graduated, I was admitted as a doctoral student at Fudan University, one of the elite schools in the country. I studied Classical Chinese and Mandarin at Nanjing Normal University. Eventually, I got my PhD from the Chinese University of Hong Kong. My choice to pursue an academic education in China is mainly related to the desire to acquire a set of academic and existential skills that cannot be acquired any other way. In Brazil, I had access to an elite education. My professors at UERJ were, for the most part, graduated from European and American universities. They gave me an extremely solid theoretical basis. At graduation, my advisor was none other than the great poet and literary theorist Roberto Corrêa dos Santos, who is, among other things, an expert on Clarice Lispector. With him, I read a lot of Plato, Aristotle and Nietzsche. He also introduced me to Barthes and Derrida. With Roberto Corrêa dos Santos I had my first philosophical training. With Roberto Conduru, I had my training as a historian. Conduru obtained his doctorate from Universidade Federal Fluminense and currently teaches in the United States. He is a great art historian and scholar of Afro-Brazilian religions. I think he is the son of Ogun. It has a remarkable personality. Students were afraid of him at UERJ. I don't know exactly why. Conduru is an excellent human being. I remember our Master's classes, when we read fundamental texts in French and English. Both Corrêa dos Santos and Conduru have that light that comes from the gods. I am extremely grateful to these two teachers. The beginning of the study of China. When I started to study Chinese, the Confucius Institute was not yet a reality in Rio de Janeiro. I looked for teachers among the members of the Chinese community who lived in the city. Brazilian universities were basically unable to satisfy the demand of students willing to 1 Note of translator: term utilized to persons with mystical initiation in the Afro-Brazilian religion. research China. There were and still are rare exceptions, such as the Orientalism Project by Professor André Bueno and the Department of Chinese at USP. The beginning for me was not difficult, it was an exciting discovery. I just do what interests me and makes me happy. For me, the “discovery” of China was and remains a great pleasure. If one day it stops being a pleasure, I stop researching. As I often say “I live and write for myself.” At the same time, however, I am involved in projects teaching Classical Chinese to Lusophone academic audiences. This project is being developed with the crucial help of Professor André Bueno. This project, too, is a source of great personal pleasure for me. I hope that such a project will contribute to Brazilian society and to the training of future sinologists in Brazil. 台 灣 大 學 政 治 學 系 中 國 大 陸 暨 兩 岸 關 係 教 學 與 研 究 中 心 The curricula, the faculty, the institution and the advisor during postgraduate training. During postgraduate training I studied everything China had to offer. My philological training was all done in China. Among the courses I took in China are Classical Chinese, Modern Chinese, Modern Japanese, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Pali and Prakrit. In Hong Kong I also studied a lot of theory of religion and ritual. I studied with the best Chinese scholars. I became very friendly with Liu Zhen, a Sanskritist trained in Germany. We both have a great appreciation for substantial research, based on reading primary sources. The same applies to Lai Chi Tim, my master in Daoist Studies. Furthermore, in China I met the most important researchers of Chinese religions in the West. I am extremely grateful, for example, to John Lagerwey and Vincent Goossaert for all their generosity. The choice of research subjects, especially those related to China. As I said above, my own personal life has been marked by immersion in several different anthropologies of religion. Obviously, religion has always aroused my curiosity. As an undergraduate, I began to understand that there is another China, that of religion. This was the China I wanted to research. The beginning of the professional career. Anyone who wants to enter an academic career has to understand that your professional career begins at graduation, not after you finish your doctorate. Invest in yourself and the intellectual skills necessary for the profession. If studying China is your thing, learn Chinese, both Mandarin and Classical Chinese. Be respectful to your teachers and only relate to those who have the same ideals as you. Intellectual growth after graduation. After graduation, my intellectual growth takes place mainly through my interaction with colleagues who are concerned with the same topics as I am. I have great friends and allies with whom to discuss deep topics such as the relationship between Daoism and local religiosity, theories of ritual, etc. Without these human relationships, I wouldn't be able to grow intellectually. Professional societies, associations, research staff and so on. I am part of a number of research groups. I worked as a translator and contributor for the Daozang Jiyao Project, coordinated by Lai Chi Tim. It is a project on a collection of Daoist texts from the Qing dynasty. I am currently part of other international projects devoted mainly to the digitization and explanation of Chinese religious texts. Such projects include the Chinese Religious Text Authority, coordinated by the great French sinologist Vincent Goossaert. Events or experiences that affect research in China nationally and individually. As long as the Chinese economy is growing, I believe there will continue to be an incentive for research. The development and evolution of the curricula themselves in China. 台 灣 大 學 政 治 學 系 中 國 大 陸 暨 兩 岸 關 係 教 學 與 研 究 中 心 is a tendency to incorporate not only traditional studies on China but also new methodologies and theories from the West. I have contributed to the curriculum in China through the creation of subjects such as the history of Daoism, the history of art, and ritual theory. Reflections on textbooks or teaching materials about China. There are excellent textbooks on China in Western languages. However, I believe that undergraduate students should leave the textbook mentality and start reading the classics from an early age. Without the classics, there is nothing. The origin and quality of students in China over time. So far, my experience with the Chinese student is quite positive. Chinese education is geared towards memorization and learning the basics before the deep. This generates students who are able to learn and deliver results, especially when it comes to exams. I will never forget my experience taking a Japanese test in a stadium full of Chinese students. You can hear the noise of the pencil scratching quickly on the paper. At that time I decided to take Japanese lessons in Chinese. I did not imagine that the final test would involve more than 400 participants. Anyway, Chinese education is good for those people who want to pursue classical and philological studies. Reflections on the methodology of China studies. In terms of methodology, anyone's priority should be language acquisition. Without this, there is no research on China. After overcoming this obstacle, which can take years depending on the student's background, the researcher must choose his main profile. Some follow a more historical line, while others adopt a more anthropological profile. There is no conflict, however, between these two possibilities. Publishing experiences. Publishing is part of every academic's professional life. The peer-review experience is one of the best and most important sources of intellectual growth for any scholar. The peer-reading publishing process is when you finally expose your ideas to the world and can receive a more or less objective assessment of what you propose to argue. Often, the peer-review process involves peers who do not evaluate your work fairly or even sympathetically. But if your ideas are strong and good enough, they will survive the whole process and you will be published. In the academic world there is no point in complaining. Do your job well and everything will be fine. The truth always prevails. Self-perceived contribution to views and theories about China. In addition to philological contributions, my major intellectual contribution to research on China will be to bridge the gap between traditional sinology and ritual theories. I am working on this topic in a book on the apotheosis of Zhu Quan, a Daoist king who lived during the 15th century. I also have other books in mind. Self-perceived problems with past research. 台 灣 大 學 政 治 學 系 中 國 大 陸 暨 兩 岸 關 係 教 學 與 研 究 中 心 When I was young, I loved to “criticize”. Nowadays my focus is to do my job as perfectly as possible. Evaluation of China studies in Brazil/Latin America and its future perspectives. With the impetus given by Professor André Bueno and other initiatives, the study of China in Brazil is growing. My assessment of Chinese studies in Brazil is that the country is in a phase of encounter with Chinese culture. This is excellent. Students and professors need more institutional support so that interest in China can be turned into professionalization and integration with the international academic world. This involves not only publishing in English but also a greater involvement of the Brazilian scholar with the Chinese academic world. There is no reason why Brazil cannot achieve such integration. Visions on China's future. The future of China is our future. We must prepare. Sinology is an important tool in this preparation.