In which John Heilemann talks with magician and performance artist Derek DelGaudio, best known for his Off-Broadway one-man show turned Hulu special. In & Of Itself. Heilemann and DelGaudio discuss the difficulty of discussing the show, which Derek has described as "a theatrical existential crisis," to anyone who hasn't seen it; his attempts to transcend the stereotypes associated with being identified as a magician; his evolution from a student of sleight-of-hand to a card mechanic (aka, a dealer who fixes hands) at a high-stakes poker game in LA, which he recounts in his recent memoir, AMORALMAN: A True Story And Other Lies; and his time as as assistant to the renowned illusionist Ricky Jay. DelGaudio also reflects on how his insights about rigged games apply to our current political situation. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.