The full title of this book is Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Bill McKibben. The author, of course, is the creator and leader of 350.org, a group that I hope everyone here is a member of. It was published in 2007, so there should be copies available for members to read. Feel free to contribute in any way by either reading the book or adding to the topic of a sustainable economy.

by Bill McKibben

Here are my notes from Part I:

The book was published in 2007, so it is interesting to see just how McKibben may have been on the right track with his opinions.

One of his main points is to show how shifting to local economies will mean less stuff but more durability.

Part I: After Growth

Quote by John Maynard Keynes: "say, two thousand years before Christ down to the beginning of the eighteenth century, there was really no great change in the standard of living of the average man in the civilized centers of the earth. Ups and downs, certainly visitations of plague, famine and war, golden intervals, but no progressive violent change."

But in 1712, something new finally happened. British inventor Thomas Newcomen developed the first practical steam engine. It could replace 500 horses walking in a circle. The industrial revolution was about to begin.

In 1776, Adam Smith noted in The Wealth of Nations that "continued increase" of "national wealth" increases wages. So "growth" became everything. It was the operative word and still is.

When Reagan became president, growth was everything for both liberals and conservatives. Limits were out. By the presidency of George W. Bush, tax cuts were used to stimulate growth. Despite the disastrous consequences, that theory still holds sway in conservative circles. And I should add to the extreme.

But McKibben points out that "growth is no longer making us happy." This may be his main theme.

Here's another fact: "Though our economy has been growing, most of us have relatively little to show for it." The income disparity between the top and the bottom is enormous. And that disparity is worse now than when McKibben wrote this book.

The liberal argument is to spread the growth around more. But McKibben believes that will not solve the problem. "Growth simply isn't enriching most of us."

He next discusses the effects of growth on climate change. And they are enormous.

We need to connect our economic policies with the environment and our own life experiences. Joy needs to be considered.

I will read this before I say a lot.

But I did want to say that before the capitalist meaning of "economy" (meaning some people using other people to accrue a lot of money)it used to mean running a household. From the ancient greek oikos (house) and nomos (law)

So if by economy we mean how we form and run a society then yes that can be green, surely (or there was no hope as soon as more than one human existed). But if when we say economy we really mean "market" and capitalist form of market at that then I would say no. It can't be done!

I do want to read the book however

If anyone has other books to suggest on the same topic, feel free to do so. We could add them to this thread.

Here is the Wikipedia article on "economy":

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Economy

Here are some of my notes and comments on Part II:

Part II: The Year of Eating Locally

Four companies slaughter 81% of American beef. Cargill controls 45% of the globe's grain trade. Archer Daniels Midland controls another 30% of the grain trade. In 15 years, Idaho potato farmers have been cut in half to less than 800. About 89% of American chickens are under contract to big companies, usually in broiler houses up to 500 feel long holding 30,000 or more chickens. The list could go on with virtually all commodities.

The "farmers" in this process live often miserable lives. Can you imagine raising chickens for Perdue? They become "Land owning serfs in an agricultural feudal system." They make a pittance.

Cheap rock lobster is often harvested by divers who show signs of neurological damage because they use ancient scuba equipment. Again, that's just one example. There are many more.

One farm in Utah has 1.5 million hogs and more sewage problems than Los Angeles. This is not true farming. Abusing the environment can be efficient in a way. Just forget about the aftereffects.

Our food system has become increasingly vulnerable to sabotage. Why hasn't it been done yet? Maybe because it's not as bloody and terrorizing as a massacre.

Half the chicken in British supermarkets is contaminated with campylobacter. Live birds are stacked in enormous towers while awaiting slaughter. They shit on each other. People want cheap food.

Ground water is running out. Places that are currently running dry: California, India, Mexico, China, Saudi Arabia. We are paying the price for the deep wells.

The fact is, however, that small farms produce more food. You can intercrop different kinds of plants. Remember that and support them.

The Cuban boycott helped Cuban farms to get small. It probably saved them.

by Jeffrey D. Sachs

An idea for a future read on this topic:

The Age of Sustainable Development by Jeffrey D. Sachs

Here is another one:

Nature's Trust: Environmental Law for a New Ecological Age
by Mary Christina Wood

by Mary Christina Wood

Notes for Part 3:

Part 3: All for One, or One for All

Houses are now being developed to help people stay to themselves. As Margaret Thatcher said, "There are no such thing as 'society.' There are just individuals and their families." The public realm is coming under increasing attack. Selfishness rules, even in Christianity. We now have hyper-individualism

The former Soviet Union is the most toxic place on earth.

When Wal-Mart expands, all sorts of small businesses disappear. It eliminates 1 1/2 jobs for every 1 job it creates. More Wal-Marts means more poverty.

People are happier with marriage, families, friends, community. The key to change is local.

Part 4: The Wealth of Communities

Interesting, in this chapter, McKibben talks about a small radio station. When Congress "deregulated" radio and ended the "fairness doctrine," the change was dramatic. Hate radio began. And Clear Channel controlled over 1200 stations. How is this deregulation? Locals could not even get local news on the air.

In Powell, Wyoming, a red-state town, the citizens kept a Wal-Mart out and built a clothing store.

Americans are the energy-use champions of all time. we require a lot of fossil fuels. Japan leads the world in building a decentralized solar-panel energy economy.

Hyper-individualism has been spread by our tv shows. People around the world want to live like that.

Vermont has a family forest program for local lumber that preserves forests.

Part 5: The Durable Future

About 30 million Chinese people a year pour out of the countryside into the city, the greatest migration in history. They want to be like America. It's just not possible for the earth to allow that. It cannot even handle one America.

The deserts of the world are growing relentlessly.

Mexico lost 1.3 million small farmers thanks to NAFTA.

An impoverished coffee grower in Uganda gets 200 shillings for a kilo of coffee. Starbucks gets the equivalent of 5,000 shillings for one cup of coffee. All of the value items we buy at the grocery store? It's the same way.

A surprising fact: McKibben saw many protestors in China. Farmers and workers were upset about their treatment.

McKibben's hope of developing more community spirit here in the US does not fill me with the optimism he wants.

Let me finish with this disturbing bit of information: In 2003, the US led transition government of Iraq in one of the first laws adopted protected the patenting of plants and seeds, even though 97% of Iraqi farmers used seeds from local markets or grown from their own crops. This was the Bush administration cooperating with the likes of Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer, and Dow Chemical. Daniel Amstutz, who oversaw agricultural reconstruction in Iraq, was a former Cargill executive. That says it all, doesn't it?

I don't know it this is the appropriate place for a response, but here it comes:

For the fast development of new seeds and crops, big money is needed.

Could you explain more, merijn? I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

I've just started reading this. I have a lot of respect for 350.org and my book The Ultimate Guide to Green Parenting was endorsed by Bill, so I'm glad to have finally made time to read this book.

I can recommend Sacred Economics: Money, Gift, and Society in the Age of Transition.

Jimmy wrote: "If anyone has other books to suggest on the same topic, feel free to do so. We could add them to this thread.

Here is the Wikipedia article on "economy":

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Economy"

Much of the discussion seems to be on economic growth, but I didn't see much on population growth?

More people means more customers &'of course a need for more jobs & resources. All goods & services come directly or indirectly from nature. All products begin with raw materials that are natural resources. Resource extraction usually impacts nature. Impacts on nature often impact people, example: water pollution.

In 1965 the world population was approximately 3.5 billion, it is now over 7 billion with predictions of 2 more billion arriving in 2050. In 1969 the population in America was 200 million, it is now over 300 million.

Standard of living per person must also be considered, America has the highest standard of living in the world. High living standards per person have bigger impacts on nature than low living standards per person.

There is a book entitled, Turning Point, by Robert McClory, it is on Goodreads & Amazon, it is about the 1965 Catholic Church 3 year study Commisdion on birth control. The vote of the members was overwhelming to relax the concerns of the Catholic Church on birth control, but The Pope accepted a minority recommendation not to do this. The main criteria for the study was the health of women, the carrying capacity of the earth, numbers of people that can be supported by a healthy earth was not considered. Is there not a need to begin this discussion again & to consider carrying capacity?

How can you have sustainable development & not consider how many people can live on a healthy planet?

Thoreau said if you have to sweep your welcome mat every day, get rid of it because it owns you & demands that you take care of it. How much care must go into big houses, big cars, etc.

When I was a kid I remember a Dennis the Menace Chistmas cartoon with Dennis sitting on top,of a stack of toys with his head hitting the ceiling & he said, "Is this all?"

More: Population, Nature, and What Women Want

While written by a man, this book approaches population increases through prehistory, history and the present time from the women's point of view.

I've just watched a documentary by RTE the Irish broadcaster which sent a Dublin street sweeper to do his job in Manila.

This most crowded city in the world has 25 million people. A family with six kids were living in a two-roomed shack. A family with eleven kids lived in a shack on a reclaimed rubbish heap, picking out bits to sell. An entire district lived on food picked out from bins, washed and refried to sell. The street sweeper also had to pick litter out of the open sewers. The city was shown as very Catholic and with huge wealth inequalities.

On another site I've read of a family with twelve children resettled in Canada from very Muslim Syria. They were described as being glad of any donated goods. Well, with twelve children, any family would be glad of any goods. I'm inclined to ask why families are having so many children in such arid countries. Isn't this a main cause of the Syrian conflict?

In the book, Age of Sustainabilty, Jeffrey Saches talks about women in many countries being forced into marriage at young ages, 12+' he says we need to empowering women with education at a young age & empowered them to seek a career & to reject early marriage.

The men can also use some education as well. They also do not always wait for marriage to have sex & this point can not be ignored.

Economic development is also a big part in all of this. Solutions are not simple, but population control is a much needed first step.

Saches also explains young girls in 3rd world countries normally have 6 kids, half are female & when they each have 3 daughters , you now have 9 females that will each have 3 daughters & then you have 27 females in 3 generations & then you multiply 3 X 27, well you get the picture, so the first population control method is to break this cycle.

Religions & the Pope are now getting involved with the human & nature relationship
& we now have social & ecological justice tied together. God created nature & the planet with limits, limits with land & resources, & we now have a fresh water shortage, but economic growth people says "NO" to having a limit, because that might limit profits, so are they disconnected from nature with their values & more connected to money values?

The Bible says we should give water to our neighbor if he is thirsty, but does that mean pure clean water, or can it be polluted water, so there we have the connection between social & ecological justice, staring us right in the face & this same social & ecological justice & relationship is the bases for population control. We all need healthy food, water, & living conditions & a healthy planet to provide these necessities.

All men & women are equal in the check out line in the grocery store.

The organization C.A.R.E now allows people to make a donation of $40.00 to buy school books for one year for young women in places like Africa.

Thanks James, good comments.