The Anthropology of the Setup:

AConversation with Chris Kraus

A N N A P OLETT I

Credit: John Kelsey

Chris Kraus is an American novelist, art critic, and editor at Semiotext(e).

Renowned for bringing the works of key European philosophers such as
Baudrillard, Deleuze, Guattari, Franco Bifo Berardi, and Peter Sloterdijk
into English language translation. Semiotext(e) is an independent publisher of
philosophy, fiction, and genre-crossing texts of creative nonfiction. Krauss long
association with the press has included editing the influential Native Agents series

123 Contemporary Womens Writing 10:1 March 2016. doi:10.1093/cwwrit/vpv030

The Author 2016. Published by Oxford University Press; all rights reserved.
For permissions, please e-mail: journals.permissions@oup.com
of fiction titles, and the current Active Agents series. Of the Native Agents series,
Kraus hassaid:
I started the Native Agents series for Semiotext(e) in 1990, when
Semiotext(e) was well-known for publishing French theory, with the
idea of transferring some of French theorys legitimacy to some friends
in New York, all of them women, who could best be described as post-
New York School writers. (The New Universal)
Before coming to writing, Kraus was a filmmaker and performer. She made many
experimental films in the 1980s and 1990s, shorts such as How to Shoot a Crime
(1987) and the feature-length Gravity and Grace (1996). In Krauss own words, her
films were experimental, DIY, personal, poetic, abject (7) and did not gain traction
in the visual art and film communities at the time of their making. This experience
became central to Krauss early fiction. The problem of feeling absolutely tuned in
to the contemporary moment (at times, unbearably so) yet being received as out
of step with what is considered of the moment artistically, is fundamental to the
problem of living a meaningful life explored in Krauss first three novels. The vicious
game of policing the zeitgeist and its winners and losers is depicted in Torpor (2006),
when the protagonists husband, Jerome, joins his fellow artists and critics in playing
rounds of Whos Peaked? where they enjoyed infinitely parsing different categories
of fame (166). While the men play the game, the female protagonist, Sylvie, meets
a Romanian poet on a DAAD scholarship identical to the one held by Sylvies
husband. Focalizing through Sylvie, the narrator observes that the Romanian woman
is [c]onscientious and intelligent, she is a good-girl academic: the kind of woman
Jerome dislikes most. Jerome dislikes most of his female colleagues because they
take their work so seriously, and he despises academe (16465). This distinctly
female sin of taking ones work too seriously is explored in Krauss reworking of
her film practice in the novels. Ironically, Krauss developing success as a writer has
brought renewed attention to her filmic works, and they are regularly shown in
art galleries and bars when Kraus makes an appearance as a writer or critic. (This
occurred in Melbourne when Kraus attended the Contemporary Womens Writing
Conference.) Sometimes still referred to as a filmmaker, Kraus says of the films and
their exhibition decades after their production:
These films have nothing to do with me now. Their exhibition comes too
late to feel like a vindication. Nevertheless it is a pleasure an abstract
affirmation of a practice Im no longer involved in but will never recant
. . . emotional science, the giddy revenge of the ageless un-gendered
young woman (9).
The rising recognition of Krauss importance as a writer keeps the films in
circulation, creating the unique environment in which her work is received.
Krauss first novel, I Love Dick, was published by Semiotext(e) in 1997. Since
then Kraus has published three more novels, Aliens & Anorexia (2000), Torpor

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AnnaPoletti The Anthropology of the Setup: AConversation with Chris Kraus
(2006), and Summer of Hate (2012). Kraus has also released two collections
of art criticism, Video Green: Los Angeles Art and The Triumph of Nothingness
(2004) and Where Art Belongs (2011). Her other publications include the
edited collection, Hatred of Capitalism (2001), and the short works Kelly Lake
Store and Other Stories (2012) and Lost Properties (2014). Kraus has garnered
considerably more recognition for her work in the art world than in the
literary field. She received the 2007 Frank Maher Award in Art Criticism
and a Warhol Foundation Arts Writers grant in 2010. Her important and
influential work as a publisher of avant-garde and experimental writers
many women among them and her body of work in fiction remain largely
unexamined by scholars of contemporary literature or womens writing.
The lack of scholarly engagement with Krauss work is probably of little surprise
to the readers of Contemporary Womens Writing, given that the association for
which the journal is named seeks to encourage the development of high-quality
scholarship on the work of women like her. Kraus herself makes a wry comment
on the continued lack of attention from literary scholars in her most recent novel,
Summer of Hate (2012) where she writes of her avatarCatt:
She saw no boundaries between feeling and thought, sex and philosophy,
hence her writing was read almost exclusively in the art world where
she attracted a small core of devoted fans, Aspergers boys, girls who
had been hospitalised for mental illness, assistant professors who would
not be receiving their tenure, lap-dancers, cutters and whores. (16)

This playful depiction of the outsider status of Krauss readers is just one example
of the invigorating and at times excoriating timbre of her writing. Krauss deft use of
what she describes, in our conversation, as a public I, that looks out towards the
world gives her novels an undeniable charge. The complex and flexible perspective
of her narrators, who deftly move between subjective and philosophical accounts of
the experiences of her characters, marks Krauss work out as unique in contemporary
literature. Reviewing Summer of Hate in the Los Angeles Review of Books, Victoria
Patterson writes that Krauss habit of displacing genre and categorization, stumping
traditional narratives of female identity in her works has resulted in her opening the
path for experimental women writers. Her voice is distinct in contemporary fiction,
and while it generates its fair share of fans (Sheila Heti, Kate Zambreno, and Tavi
Gevinson), few have been able to copy the revelatory effects of Krauss writing.
Writing of the experience of coming late to I Love Dick in 2015 and her
heckling by men as she read the ambiguously titled novel on the subway, Leslie
Jamison writes, I knew Iwas holding white-hot text in my hands, written by a
woman who had theorised what these guys were doing with me, with their dick
jokes even before theyd done it. For Jamison, writing in the New Yorker, the
central drama driving Krauss fiction is that of a female consciousness struggling
to live a meaningful life. The meaning of that life, in all Krauss works, centers

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AnnaPoletti The Anthropology of the Setup: AConversation with Chris Kraus
on self-determination and having ones thoughts, experiences, and work taken
seriously. Krauss ability to depict this struggle within a complex social, economic,
ideological, and political context makes her one of the few fiction writers able to
explicate the contemporary moment to readers without simplification. As she
explains in our conversation, an attention to the setup, how people negotiate a
relationship with power, is central to her sensibility. Moreover, it was this focus
on the working of the setup, as well as her position as an influential publisher,
that made Kraus an excellent keynote speaker for the Contemporary Womens
Writing Association conference in Melbourne in2014.
In setting the topic of the Fifth Biennial International Conference of the
Contemporary Womens Writing Association, Contemporary Womens
Writing and Environments, we wanted to capture several key issues driving
womens creative practice in the contemporary moment. The important work
of ecocriticism was one, including how women writers are responding to the
inevitability of climate change in their work. We wanted to juxtapose this interest
in the climate and physical environment with an opportunity to discuss recent
debates about the status of womens writing, inspired by organizations such as
VIDA and, in Australia, the Stella Count. These organizations have renewed the
discussion around the status of womens writing by producing statistics on the
reviewing of womens writing in the literary press, the representation of womens
writing in major literary awards, and through activism addressing gender bias in
the literary field. The statistics they produce on reviewing have been particularly
effective in reinvigorating discussion about the publication and reception of writing
by women. However, they have also raised the more difficult ontological question
of whether there is such a thing as womens writing. Is writing produced by
women the same thing as womens writing? The public discussion sparked by the
VIDA count has shown that this question is a pressing one for many writers and
many young women who are developing their practice as writers. Krauss work,
particularly I Love Dick, has become a touchstone for a generation of feminist
writers and critics who seek to understand the cultural milieu in which the
statistics that VIDA collects emerge. Many of these writers and critics confront
this ontological question in a context where the status of men and women
is being productively destabilized by trans friends, colleagues, and lovers. The
relationship between the sexed body and writing seems as fresh and as urgent a
question as it was for Woolf and the first generation of feminist literary critics,
yet the analysis they developed cannot quite account for the experience of
contemporary women writers. Krauss interest in power in her fiction does not
offer answers to these questions, but nuanced observations and reflections from
within the belly of thebeast.
Her observational style has inevitably made the question of the status of the
autobiographical central to any discussion of her work. Jamison writes,

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 As a writer especially as a woman who has written personal material
Im grateful to Kraus for deploying the materials of her life in rigorous
and compelling ways; for holding vulnerability at some remove in the
face of those determined to read any act of self-disclosure as narcissistic
or self-pitying. But as a reader, Kraus makes me confront my own hunger
for autobiographical access; it makes me aware of how much Icrave a
sense of the true story beneath her written narratives, even as Irespect
the ways they refuse to deliver any kind of one-to-one correspondence
between lived and constructed experience.
It is with this point that we began our conversation. While it is clear that Krauss
works are fiction and that she has no interest in the pact of truthfulness about the
self and life that binds readers to narrators of memoir, there is no denying that
the alchemy her writing works on real life is a considerable part of its appeal and
its force. For many readers, her novels are hard to put down because they pay a
critical, inventive, and detailed attention to the most perplexing and confounding
aspects of the real world: intimate relationships, the personal struggle with social
norms and social bonds, and the uncanny and seemingly ineffable ways in which
history and power structures shape the everyday.
This conversation took place in Melbourne in early July 2014, at the end of
Chris Krauss visit to Monash University as a Visiting Scholar in the School of
Languages, Literatures, Cultures and Linguistics. While in Melbourne, Chris
presented a keynote lecture at the Fifth International Contemporary Womens
Writing Association Conference addressing the topic of Womens Writing and
Environments.
AP: Your approach of transcription in your work extends beyond your own
life to biography and characterization, and the consistent way your draw on the
lives of other people in your work. For example, Aliens & Anorexia is on the one
hand a biography of Simone Weil where youre bringing an interpretation to her
life and work. In that novel you make visible a version of her life and work to your
reader, and you do the same thing in Torpor with the activist Jennifer Harbury. And
you do it again in Summer of Hate but its with the character of Paul whos not a
public figure.
CK: Exactly. It was consciously biographical.
AP: This aspect of your work seems to occupy an interesting space between
characterization, in the more mundane creative writing sense, a kind of biography.
Iwanted to know whether you see your fiction or the fictional world youre
creating as a way of bringing real life people and a sensibility about their work to
peoples attention?

CK: Absolutely. If the first-person narrator of a book is an autobiographical

I, wouldnt you want the other characters to be drawn biographically? That is,

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AnnaPoletti The Anthropology of the Setup: AConversation with Chris Kraus
to examine the facts of others lives as closely as you examine your own. Writing
about Paul Thek and Simone Weil or about artists Iknow, in Where Art Belongs
is like doing a psychobiography. Its funny, the title you gave for our workshop
Writing The Encounter had a 70s swinger ring to it. But writing about
others is like that you are trying to stage an encounter between yourself and the
subject. How close can you get to their mindset? Its an empathic projection, more
than an examination. What would it like to be that person? How would you see
things? How would theyfeel?

AP: Its a very specific encounter you create with this approach of seeking an
empathetic dialogue with the subject. The reader is a witness to that encounter,
we witness the writer Chris Krauss unique sensibility coming into contact with
and seeking some engagement with a specific person. And you are also staging an
encounter for the reader with that material.
CK: I was very inspired by reading Ernst Pawels Kafka biography, The Nightmare
of Reason: ALife of Franz Kafka, a long time ago. He was so intimate with Kafka,
he understood him so well, he could observe when Kafka was being an idiot or
being contradictory without losing respect. Geoff Dyer stages a different kind
of encounter with DH Lawrence in Out of Sheer Rage, but thats much more about
Dyers own process, achieving some state of grace through this contrived struggle
with Lawrence.
AP: Maybe we could talk about the range of real life people, of characters that
you have staged those encounters with in your novels. Lets begin with Simone
Weil, for example, who is a philosopher, an important thinker, an important figure.
Maybe we could talk briefly about why you choseher.
CK: I read her in French while Iwas living a hibernatory domestic life in
the Southern Adirondacks. Itook French reading lessons with our Quebecois
neighbor, Mrs. Jensen, and we read Simone Weil together. At the time Ifelt Weil
was speaking straight to me. Iwas sad a lot of the time, and that sadness that runs
through her books a radical empathy went straight into myveins.
AP: And so could we then contrast your depiction of Weil with Jennifer
Harbury and the way she appears in I Love Dick as a person who you want to
document, youre documenting her career as an activist . ..
CK: Right. Imean, Ijust felt like Iunderstood Jennifer Harbury. Iknew her.
There was a part of myself that was her, that could have done that: Id certainly
known people like her before. Idont think Icould write about someone without
feeling that deep connection you know, Icould have been him or her, or vice
versa. Its a matter of trying to enact the other person.
AP: What we see in the response to your work is precisely this kind of
reaction, Ithink. What you stage in your writing is a certain kind of visceral,
empathetic, intelligent, and emotion-driven response to someones work and what

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theyre doing. And the fans of your work see this. It might be why you have a lot of
younger people as fans of your work, for they respond to you in thatway.
CK: Yeah, well, thats wonderful. Imean, what more could onewant?
AP: That triangulation is very interesting and unique, as we see you
encountering, but youre also modeling a way of reading.
CK: Thats how Iread Kathy Acker when Iarrived in New York. Before
knowing anyone in the art world, Iread her self-published books. They were all
over the East Village. And that writing, like Weils, Ifelt like she was speaking to me.
AP: These two examples show you engaging with people that have some form
of public presence. But then in Summer of Hate and Torpor you bring this approach
to everyday people, peoples private lives. Could you talk a little bit about that
process of bringing everybody people the inhabitants of Thurman and their little
family histories, but also the person upon whom the character Paul is based and
bringing their kind of life experience into abook?
CK: Well, Ialways knew Torpor would be like a prequel to I Love Dick, kind of
a preface to the absurd situation of a couple writing love letters to a third party.
How could that happen? What is that marriage?

During those years, we lived in the Adirondacks, and Iwas not doing much.
Sylvere used to say, Youll look back on this as a good time in your life
eventually things will change and youll miss having the chance to be so alone and
receptive. And this turned out to be true. Because it was a very fortunate time to
be in that area. Ibecame friendly with the librarian at the closest small-city library
in Glens Falls, Christine McDonald. Shed moved up there from New York, and felt
she was there for a reason: witnessing the end of a certain kind of rural American
culture. There was no cable TV. There was an independent, subsistence culture
of trapping and wood selling and trading, small farming, and seasonal work, here
and there. Imet people whod been to Albany once or twice in their lives, and
never to New York City, which was just over four hours away. Ijoined the local
Historical Society. History, and to them history was still more a matter of family
stories than things written down. The strange stasis of that area, Irealized, told
everything about the couples situation: why they would flee New York and seek
out such athing?

AP: So theres a different kind of ethics at play in engaging with and inhabiting
the lives of everyday people and bringing them into your fiction that is distinct to
engaging with those public figures. Could you speak briefly about whether you have
ever had an ethical concern around bringing everyday people, private people, into
your novels? Or do you just kind of trust your gut that youre doing them justice?

CK: Nothing in Torpor belittles the local characters. Theres nothing beyond
the personal narratives that they tell about themselves. Youd go and buy wood

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AnnaPoletti The Anthropology of the Setup: AConversation with Chris Kraus
from an old timer, and hed stand in front of his cabin declaiming his history in
a practically Homeric way. My writing just fed back things Iheard. And for a
couple of years, Itaught video workshops at the local school where wed make
local histories, and Iheard a lot of stories that way. In I Love Dick, of course, the
book is set in the cultural world, and anyone who cares to know, knows who
the characters are. Theyre public figures, on a small scale. My ethic was always
to change the name if Iwas going to say something less than flattering. Sadly,
Iantagonized a few people for life by writing about them thisway.

AP: Right, yes. Theres always that risk in writing from real life, that people are
either going to wish they got the credit for the thing that you masked or wished
you made them less identifiable.

CK: Yes, and thats a problem of fiction in general. Unless its totally plot-driven
genre fiction, there will always be some reflection of the writers experience, her
friends and acquaintances.
AP: Were coming back to this question of why the transfiction space that
youre seeking to articulate has trouble getting clear definition. Partly its because
were now in this cultural moment thats hypersensitive about privacy, celebrity,
and identity in the sense that people feel increased ownership over their identities.
CK: Yes, people become so protective of their own little personal brands,
right? Ifeel like Ive become a lot more circumspect in the last several years than
when Ibegan writing. Maybe its because at the beginning, there was nothing to
lose. But Ialso think maybe the culture has changed, somewhat. In Lost Properties,
theres a middle section where Ikind of take the piss out of some recent CalArts
grads archiving their summer vacation. It seemed like a big risk to publish
that, even though Ididnt say anything about them that they probably wont say
themselves in a couple of years. Hedi [El Kholti] asked, Are you sure you want
to say this? Are you sure you dont want to tone it down? And Ialready had.
Everyone has become so nice . . . (i.e., cautious). Ithink it would be good to try
and push those boundaries back in the future, especially with art writing. Things go
dead when youre so circumspect.
AP: In many interviews you juxtapose your work against memoir, yet your
work is so closely related to the real world. This proximity to the real world
produces a particular kind of charge, in an aesthetic and ethical sense, in your
writing: it gives your writing a specific kind of the feeling and magnetism. Could
you talk a little about the approach of transcription that seems to define
yourwork?
CK: That term, transcription, or transfiction like a lot of good ideas, it
started out as a scam. Iwas editing Ann Rowers If Youre a Girl as one of the debut
titles for Semiotext(e)s Native Agents, and we wanted to legitimize her writing,
make it seem serious, in the context of Semiotext(e)s French theory list. Sylvere

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AnnaPoletti The Anthropology of the Setup: AConversation with Chris Kraus
[Lotringer] interviewed her, and she coined the term transfiction, to describe what
she does, wanting to win over the reader, cracking a joke, making apun.
But as an idea, its totally right, and it guided me when Ibegan writing. Ann
Rower describes the way that even when transcribing a tape its impossible to
avoid little slips, intrusions of ones own subjectivity.
All fiction uses material from life, however selected or filtered. Its true, my
novels have hewn very close to real life. Another big influence was the writing of
Christopher Isherwood. He was highly regarded among people at the St. Marks
Poetry Project, where Iworked in the1980s.
Later, when Ibegan writing seriously, Ireread his work and was moved to
discover his project of rewriting his earlier works toward a point of greater truth
and transparency, after he began practicing Hinduism and became more openly gay.
In his 20s, his early novels were veiled autobiographies anyway, and he reworked
the material in them much later in a more direct way. This seemed magnificent.
And in no way makes him a memoirist. Rather, hes a great fiction writer.
AP: It seems to me that one of the key distinctions from memoir of this space
that youre charting is that the writing self is not the center. As you say in your
interview with Sheila Heti for The Believer, its not about the emotional catharsis or
personal transformation of the writer, yet the writers sensibility is very important
to this process of transcription.

CK: Yes Ialways thought the point would be to create a public I, that looks
out toward the world. Theres a persistent lag in the culture, that continues to view
female writing in this tradition as memoir. Emily Goulds wonderful novel Friendship
came out this season, and has been mostly reviewed and discussed in the context of
her personal life, as if it were a memoir. Because her characters inhabit roughly the
same terrain as Lena Dunhams Girls, her book becomes a flashpoint for everything
people mindlessly elevate, envy, and then despise. Her contemporary Choire Sicha
wrote a different but similar book that came out last season, same milieu, called A
Very Recent History. Both books are very a clef, and yet Choires was received much
more generously, on its own terms, as a novel. Its hard to believe this disparity still
persists. Both writers are in their early 30s; surely, we should be over this by now . ..

AP: Reviewers and commentators are also talking about a kind of sensibility
that is universal and accessible to the reader, whereas it sounds as if what youre
seeing in the review of Emily Goulds work is this sense that its still personal, that
the work is about Emily Gould, and there is not some kind of universally accessible
sensibility in thenovel.

CK: Yes. Its as if theres a hard shell around the male narrator and a soft,
gelatinous membrane around a female narrator. People love to pick at and prod
and pierce this membrane, but they respect the male narrators shell. Idont know
why this persists. Its very confusing.

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 AP: You have been talking about this for a long time in your fiction and in public:
youve been talking about the outward-facing female I since you started writing and
talking about writing, as well as in the work you did with the Native Agents series.
Yet there seems to be a lot of difficulty getting traction for this idea in the literary
culture. The work of women writers still runs up against the problem of reception.

CK: Yes, it still does. In a sense, maybe its worse. Mary McCarthy wrote
extremely autobiographical fiction, with her husbands and lovers and colleagues
wholly identifiable, but she was not attacked in quite the same way. Although she
had to leave Wellfleet, Massachusetts, after publishing A Charmed Life, it was such
a wicked parody of her circle there

AP: But she was punished in the local sense, by her community, but not in the
cultural sense. The reception of her work did not punish her for that transgression
even if her community did. Are you suggesting its worse now, so that Mary
McCarthy could draw from life but still be treated as a novelist without this
excessive attention to the personal in the reception of herwork?
CK: Yes, Idont understand how that happened. But, Ithink in the mid-20 th
century, there was this phenomenon of the exceptional woman de Beauvoir,
Simone Weil, and McCarthy all got to be them. No wonder McCarthy resented
the womens movement! As public intellectuals, these few brilliant women were
given the same hard shell of respect accorded the men. But now the idea of the
public intellectual is a joke. We enjoy greater equality, but theres no longer that
exceptional space for a few individuals to slip through.
During the discussion after my talk about Kathy Acker and Ken Warks email
correspondence [Im Very Into You, Semiotext(e)2015] somebody asked why
Ithought Acker would have objected to publishing them, if she were alive
because, you know, wasnt her work totally personal? Well, no. It was not. Her
books were highly composed, hugely different from personal documents.
AP: I think the other thing we can triangulate with this is the rise of celebrity
culture around authors themselves and the need for authors to participate in a
kind of celebrity culture that is in proximity to the confessional. Iam thinking here
of the phenomena of the writers festival where writers go along to be in front of
their readers and be interviewed. And the desire in those spaces is I want to hear
something from the real life of the author.
CK: I mean, yeah, to a really disgusting degree. Each season, profile after profile
appears about the four or five writers whose books are being the most heavily promoted.
Theyre repellent to read, but Ifeel bad for the writers. There must be some who enjoy it,
but Ithink for most people in the end its embarrassing, even personally damaging.
AP: Theres an interesting constellation of things that make this space that
youve been articulating for some time through your work and in conversation
the work of people like Ann Rower, as well, there are things overshadowing

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that space that make it very difficult for it to actually get some clear edges as a
practice, because theres celebrity culture blurring the boundaries on one side and
confessional culture on the other. And this is further complicated by the persistent
problems around gender and what female writers are seen to bedoing.
CK: Yes. Although Ithink one of the problems that people have reading my
books is that theyre so different from each other. They tend to attract different
readerships. Iwas surprised when Iwent out with Aliens & Anorexia that the
people who really liked I Love Dick were not the people who responded to Aliens &
Anorexia. It was like a totally different readership. The same thing happened again
with Torpor, and again with Summer of Hate.
AP: So that might bring us around to the second major question Ihad for
us, which was about the establishment. Part of what weve tracked in our
conversation so far is your movement as an author from the outside where you
could just say what you wanted, feeling like no one cared anyway so you were
free. And now, particularly because of the reception of your art criticism and the
power that youve developed in your work with Semiotext(e), youre inside a kind
of establishment.

I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the way youre tracking in your novels,
in quite distinct case studies, individual peoples relationship with what we might
call the establishment. It manifests in quite different ways in each book. So youre
partly tracking peoples encounters with quite ephemeral but very powerful social
systems of validation, particularly in the early books, such as I Love Dick. Ithink
thats what people love particularly about that book. And then in Torpor we see a
continuation . ..

CK: In Paris, the Felix group . ..

AP: Yes, yes. We see that continued with the addition of historical narrative as
a kind of establishment, as a set of rules or set of expectations about how things
play out, that individual characters are very troubled by. And Romania itself is
presented in Torpor as a character in that narrative. And in Summer of Hate you
turn your attention to the prison system and to the problem of the legal system
in the United States and the cycle of debt it creates. So three very distinct books
about three distinct systems. Is the establishment a useful term for this? How do
you think of about that aspect of yourwork?

CK: Its thesetup.

AP: Thesetup?

CK: Yeah. Ihad an assistant, Amy Stohl, who was a state college philosophy
dropout and she was very clear about this, shed say, Oh, everyone is born
into the setup. Everyone navigates it. Ithink anthropology would be just

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as useful a word to describe my approach to writing as autobiography or
biography. Each of the books looks at different anthropological set-ups the
East Village art world, the Parisian intellectual world, and in Summer of Hate,
the American justice system in the southwest during the Bush era. Not that
its changed a great deal. In each case, Im curious to know what are the rules?
How do people exist within them? Thats kind of a sensibility, right? How
people relate to power, how they move through the setup, is so defining of
character.

AP: Anthropology is a great way to think about it, you undertake observational
descriptive work, but then its offset by this empathetic from of characterization,
so youre really following through the impact of the setup. That seems to be a big
part of the project foryou.

CK: Definitely. Imean, memoir implies the neoliberal illusion of the

autonomous individual as if one persons crises and traumas were his or hers
alone. But Ifavor a more anthropological, sociographic outlook. Aperson is
always navigating structures; they are what forms the person. You could say that
defines my sensibility as a writer, but its something that Hedi [El Kholti], Sylvere
[Lotringer], and Ishare. You could say, its the Semiotext(e) sensibility.
AP: You extend this sensibility to range of male characters, particularly in
the latter novels Torpor and Summer of Hate. Torpor contains a very moving,
observational and, to use your term, anthropological depiction of a Holocaust
survivor. Could you talk a little about your interest in bringing this perspective to
male characters in your recentwork?
CK: Both Torpor and Summer of Hate show how historical circumstances play
out in peoples lives. In a sense, all of Semiotext(e)s fiction list does this the
books are like psychic corollaries to the theory and activist works: this is what
these forces yield in these peoples lives. The historical trauma Jerome and
Paul absorb is passed on to others . . . their families and intimate friends are
contaminated by it, aswell.
AP: Your decision to use male characters in this way suggests a response to
a view of womens writing that says, Well, womens writing is about humanizing
women.
CK: Oh, yeah, yeah, thats a dreadful idea. After the first twelve or fourteen
titles, Ifigured Iwas finished with editing Native Agents as a heavily female
first-person series. Wed done what we set out to do, and it was fine. Hedi and
Iwork closely together on the fiction list. While its no longer exclusively female,
neither does it posit the straight middle-class white male as the ultimate subject.
We published Jarett Kobeks Atta, a psychobiography of Mohamed Atta; we
published Veronica Gonzalez Penas The Sad Passions, set in Mexico City across
three generations. Most recently, we published Lodovico Pignatti Morans Nicola,

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AnnaPoletti The Anthropology of the Setup: AConversation with Chris Kraus
Milan, about a straight guy stalking another straight guy around the edge of the
art/fashion/branding creative international worlds. Reflecting the present, Ithink,
gender is not the leading card.

Monash University, Australia

Anna.Poletti@monash.edu

WorksCited

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Pawel, Ernst. The Nightmare of Reason: A Life of Franz Kafka. New York: Farrar,
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Rower, Ann. If Youre a Girl. New York: Semiotext(e), 1990. Print.

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