4-7 - Initiation From Sri Guru

Initiation from Sri Guru
 From: Sanga Vol. IV, No. 7 (view other messages by this author)
 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 13:49:15
S a n g a Thursday, April 4, 2002

Re: Initiation from Sri Guru
"The guru is not merely someone who passes on a mantra to another. He has
footing in reality. He is heavy (guru), rooted in the ground of being. He
appears before us as a practitioner to teach us by example, and he is
acquainted with the plane of perfection as well."
Q & A with Swami B.V. Tripurari
Q. Please forgive me but I have a question which has been bothering me for
some time and I feel guilty about asking it.
Srila Prabhupada initiated me into Krsna bhakti in 1970. Since then I have
fallen but some time ago I was privileged to meet another Gaudiya guru who
impressed me. I was immediately drawn to him and to sit in his presence
reminded me so much of the times I sat with Prabhupada.
My question is as one who is fallen and not worthy to call himself a

disciple of Srila Prabhupada, would I be committing an offense if I asked
for initiation from this guru? Is it possible to be reinitiated by another
guru? I do not feel worthy of the name that was given to me.
Maybe I am committing an offense by even thinking of the question.
A. I think you should open your heart about this matter to the particular
guru you were drawn to. Otherwise, in general your feelings are
understandable. Guru is one.
About this principle Sridhara Maharaja has said:
"Guru means one who has come to give Krsna consciousness. The formal
difference will be reduced when one can catch the very substance of the
teachings for which the guru is respected. When one is intimately
connected with the thread of divine love, which the guru comes to impart
to us, he will accept it, wherever it comes from. He will see it as a
friendly relation--not antagonistic, but cooperative. Although separate in
figure, at heart both of the gurus are the same because they have a common
cause. If we can recognize the real thing for which we are approaching the
guru, then we will understand how to make the adjustment in our
relationship with the siksa guru, diksa guru, and vartma-pradarsaka
guru. We are infinitely indebted to all our gurus."
So from your fallen position Sri Krsna has sent another devotee acting in
the capacity of a siksa guru to help pick you up. In my opinion there is
no need for you to be initiated by him, but allow him to help you to
realize the full import of initiation though his instruction and
example. You may want to hear the mantra again from him in the context of
his explaining its significance. If he feels this will help you, follow
his lead.
Q. I am a practitioner and teacher of trika/kundalini yoga for thirty

years. I studied under Swami Rudrananda in the lineage of Muktananda and
his guru Baba Nityananda. I want to take sannyasa from a credible
lineage. Does your lineage offer sannyasa initiations?
A. Yes, I do give sannyasa, but we are Vaisnavas, not Saivites. So I give

Vaisnava sannyasa or veda/bhakti sannyasa, and not jnana sannyasa aimed at
attaining mukti. Our ideal is prema over mukti, which is a by-product of
prema. If you read my Gita commentary and feel comfortable with the
precepts of our lineage, I would encourage you to meet personally with
me. I do have some students who were formally affiliated with Swami
Rudrananda, Swami Muktananda, etc.
Q. I was wondering about the need for initiation. If someone were to chant
gayatri, japa, and engage in all the other practices, could they make
progress without a guru? You provide instruction (siksa) for many
people. Could one without formal initiation ask questions of you, read
scripture, practice sadhana, and make honest progress?
A. Previously the diksa mantras were not available to anyone other than
through the guru. Now they can be found in books that are widely
circulated. However, these books also stress the importance of
initiation. Even in a formal sense initiation is important if one expects
to be considered a member of a particular lineage. One may read medical
books, but that does not qualify one to perform medical services without
being recognized by the medical institution.
It seems quite natural that one who receives instructions from a spiritual
teacher and takes them to heart would want to offcially become his
disciple. This should be the natural and happy progression of one who
takes siska from a guru.
Furthermore, in the optimum the guru is not merely someone who passes on a
mantra to another. He has footing in reality. He is heavy (guru), rooted
in the ground of being. He appears before us as a practitioner to teach us
by example, and he is acquainted with the plane of perfection as well. As
we progress though the practice he prescribes, the malady of material
desire gradually subsides and our healthy life begins to manifest. When we
are materially diseased Sri Guru is involved with us as if a practitioner
himself, and in our healthy life he remains involved with us as well.
Q. What is more important, our practice or the grace of the guru?
A. The two are inseparable.
Q. In my readings I have noticed that there is obviously an inherent

potency in the sacred gayatris and mantras and some efficacy in their
chanting. If the gayatris and mantras have some potency of their own
independent of the sadhaka then what is this potency?
A. The principal element in any Krsna mantra or the corresponding gayatri

mantra is the name of God found within it. Although, unlike other mantras,
Krsna mantras are always activated and empowered due to their containing
names of Krsna, one will not be able to derive the full effect of these
mantras without receiving them from Sri Guru because such mantras will not
be inclined to reveal themselves to those who try to circumvent their
distributing agent. Just as when you receive a sample computer program you
cannot get the entire benefit of the program until the marketers give you
full access, similarly one can get something from any Krsna mantra, but
for the full effect to manifest requires that one receive it from a proper
source and learn from such a guru how to chant it, etc.
Q. Gopa-kumara chanted his mantra with no formal instruction from his guru
and still attained Goloka Vrindavana. What then is the relationship
between the efficacy of a sacred mantra and the sadhaka's understanding of
its meaning?
A. Although not initially, eventually Gopa-kumara of Brhat-bhagavatamrta

did receive instructions regarding his mantra. Generally the guru will
impart various instructions to the disciple at the time of giving him the
mantra. However, only by chanting it and embracing other requisite
practices can one realize the fruit of the mantra. If the sadhaka has
comprehensive theoretical knowledge about the significance of his mantra,
for the most part that will help him to chant it effectively, but this is
not an absolute necessity. However, he must know how many times to chant
it, at what times, under what conditions, etc. to get off the ground.
Q. As a practical consideration, I wonder why some devotees have made

little spiritual progress in comparison to others while chanting the same
potent mantras? I wonder how much of this results from a lack of sincerity
or some other consideration?
A. The background of a person can also influence their rate of

advancement. Bijaya Kumara and Vrajanatha of Jaiva Dharma advanced rapidly
through the various stages of practice because they came from the
backgrounds of knowledge and inquisitiveness as opposed to the backgrounds
of material distress and material aspiration. Advancement also involves
cleansing the heart, and this cleansing implies the removal of one's
karma. Karmic reactions are removed gradually beginning with those that
have not yet manifested, the stockpile of karmic reaction lying in
seed. The effects of this cleansing may not always have any visible
manifestation. Offenses play a large role in stunting one's spiritual
progress. Every case is unique.
Q. What will result from the chanting of the sacred mantras for one who
has no faith in their efficacy or little understanding of their purpose?
A. The mantra is to be given to the faithful. If by chance it falls into

the hands of those without faith, it may awaken faith over time if chanted
regularly.
Q. In the Bengali Vaisnava tradition there is a meditation where a serious

practitioner is given an esoteric identity within the realm of Vrndavana
by his or her guru. Usually the identity is that of a manjari, a young
girl who assists in the play of Radha and Krsna, but it could also be a
friend of Krsna. The practitioner meditates on this "reality" and the goal
is to enter permanently into it at one point. This experience is
considered to be the highest reality, the cosmic drama, the eternal
spiritual play of Radha and Krsna. What is your understanding of this
practice?
A. What you refer to represents the higher culture of raganuga-bhakti. The

key words are "serious practitioner." When a serious disciple on the
raga-marg develops interest in a particular bhava, he approches his
guru. The guru then makes an assessment as to whether his disciple's
interest is based on genuine understanding. If he determines that his
disciple's interest is genuine, he will guide the disciple, often by
giving him a prototype of a spiritual form (not the actual form) to employ
in visualization/meditation. This prototype or blueprint will gradually be
filled in with advanced practice such that one's actual eternal role in
Krsna lila will manifest. The prototype of the siddha deha is described in
scripture.
The above system, however, has been abused in the past, and reformers of
the tradition have stressed revelation of the details of one's spiritual
form though the power of kirtana, as opposed to elaborate techniques of
visualization/meditation that are difficult for novices. In this scenario,
spontaneous visualization/meditation develops in advanced stages and thus
one's spiritual form is internally cultivated.
Q. Does such practice also exist in the Sakta tradition? Can Devi be
worshipped in a similar way? If it does not exist in the Sakta tradition,
does such a practice exist in the Saiva tradition in connection with
Parvati and Siva?
A. This is not a part of any Devi or Siva sect. One of the reasons for
this is that most of these sects have liberation (sayujya mukti) as their
sadhya (goal), and there is no eternal lila to take part in when one
attains sayujya mukti.
Q. What is the significance of the spiritual name one receives at the time
of initiation? Is this one's name in the spiritual world?
A. The has devotee has two bodies, a practicing body (sadhaka deha) and a
spiritual perfect body (siddha deha). The name given at the time of
initiation is relative to one's sadhaka deha. This body with its
developing mental orientation to Krsna seva must be identified
appropriately. It is no longer the purely material body of a conditioned
soul. Mahaprabhu Sri Caitanya told Srila Sanatana Goswami Prabhupada that
a devotee's sadhaka deha is not material, vaisnava-deha 'prakrta' kabhu
naya 'aprakrta' deha bhaktera 'cid-ananda-maya.'
Initiation takes time to complete. When it is completed, the

sambandha-jnana one receives at the time of initiation and thereafter is
realized, and the devotee--sadhaka deha and all--becomes God-like in
nature, diksa kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana sei-kale krsna tare kare
atma-sama.
While at this time the sadhaka deha is fully engaged and thus God-like,
the devotee's siddha deha is still under cultivation. A female sadhaka
deha may have a corresponding male siddha deha, etc. So the two, sadhaka
deha and siddha deha, have their own names. The name, etc. of one's siddha
deha is revealed in due course as the sadhaka deha undergoes
spritualization.
Questions or comments may be submitted at the Q&A Forum

http://www.swami.org/sanga/ or email
sangaeditor@swami.org.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Moderator: sangaeditor@swami.org
Date: Thursday, April 4, 2002 Vol. IV, No. 7
Readership: 9,304
Back issue archive: http://www.eScribe.com/religion/sanga
Sanga website http://www.swami.org/sanga

Audarya Darshan website http://www.swami.org
Audarya Bookstore http://www.swami.org/merchant.mv
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Initiation from Sri Guru

S a n g a Thursday, April 4, 2002

Q & A with Swami B.V. Tripurari

My question is as one who is fallen and not worthy to call himself a

Maybe I am committing an offense by even thinking of the question.

About this principle Sridhara Maharaja has said:

Q. I am a practitioner and teacher of trika/kundalini yoga for thirty

A. Yes, I do give sannyasa, but we are Vaisnavas, not Saivites. So I give

Q. What is more important, our practice or the grace of the guru?

A. The two are inseparable.

Q. In my readings I have noticed that there is obviously an inherent

A. The principal element in any Krsna mantra or the corresponding gayatri

A. Although not initially, eventually Gopa-kumara of Brhat-bhagavatamrta

Q. As a practical consideration, I wonder why some devotees have made

A. The background of a person can also influence their rate of

A. The mantra is to be given to the faithful. If by chance it falls into

Q. In the Bengali Vaisnava tradition there is a meditation where a serious

A. What you refer to represents the higher culture of raganuga-bhakti. The

Initiation takes time to complete. When it is completed, the

Questions or comments may be submitted at the Q&A Forum

Sanga website http://www.swami.org/sanga

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