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IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE BOARD

-REFUGEE PROTECTION DIVISION -

Record of a Hearing under the

Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, concerning

TOLYAN ZELINSKI
(a.k.a Dr. Tolyan Zelinski)

HELD AT: Toronto, Ontario

DATE: October 6, 2021

BEFORE: Anthony Peterson - Member

APPEARANCES:

Tolyan Zelinski - Claimant

Jacqueline Swaisland, LPP Virtual Law Firm
- Counsel for Claimant
N/A - Minister's Counsel
N/A - Interpreter
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PRESIDING MEMBER: We're on the record. Speaking is

Board Member Anthony Peterson. Today's date is October
6,2021. The matter that's in front of me this morning is
LPP21-02122.
Present in the hearing room is the adult claimant and
counsel.
Counsel, would you be so kind as to identify yourself for
the record?
COUNSEL: Last name Swaisland, and I'll spell it for the
record: S W A I S L A N D, first initial J. I'm a lawyer
with the Law Society of Ontario in good standing.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Good, good morning.
COUNSEL: Good morning, sir.
PRESIDING MEMBER: I'm going to ask the claimant at this
time to identify himself for the record.
MALE CLAIMANT: Dr. Tolyan Zelinski.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Good morning. Dr. Zelinski, to
confirm, you do not require an interpreter today?
MALE CLAIMANT: That is correct, I am confident in my
English language skills, sir, thank you.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Let's go through a number of
administrative matters.
The first thing I'd like to do is put on record the
documents that the panel will be relying upon in addition to
the testimony today. And the documents are as follows.
There's a package of information from CBSA; that will be
marked as Exhibit 1. The Basis of Claim Form for the
claimant, that will be marked as Exhibit 2. Exhibit 3 will
be counsel’s disclosure package dated October 5, 2021.
Exhibit 4 will be the Index for the National Documentation
 - 3 - LPP21-02122

Package for Ukraine. And the version we'll be using for

these proceedings will be April 23, 2021.
Counsel, do I have all the documents that you filed on
behalf of your clients?
COUNSEL: Yes, sir.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Let's continue with administrative
matters. What I'd like to do is put on record the issues
that I believe we have to look at and discuss in today's
hearing. And the issues are as follows.
Identity, in general subjective fear, credibility, agents
of persecution/state protection, viable internal flight
alternative, whether the claimant has a well-founded fear of
persecution, nexus to a Convention ground pursuant to s. 96
of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, and/or
whether he is a person in need of protection pursuant to
Section 97 of the legislation.
Counsel, do you have any comments regarding the issues
I've just mentioned?
COUNSEL: No, Mr. Member, I agree with the scope of the
issues delineated.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Now what I'd like to do now is just
instruct the claimant briefly how we're going to proceed, a
little bit about the questions that will be put to him.
I know your counsel has gone through this with you, so
I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it, but I think it's
important that we go over it just very briefly.
The questions that I put to you and your counsel puts to
you, the purpose of those questions is so that I can better
understand your claim, so I can make a fair and appropriate
decision at the end of the proceedings.
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The questions that we put to you, if you do not

understand the questions ask us to rephrase it. There's no
need to guess if you don't – there's no need to guess at the
meaning of the question. If you don't understand the
question ask us to rephrase it, and do that as many times as
you want.
I'm going to ask you to always focus on our questions.
If there's something else you'd like to say, I can assure
you that you'd be given the opportunity to say it.
The questions that we put to you, you're going to want to
respond to some of the questions with yes/no answers. Other
questions you're going to want to answer much more fully in
greater detail.
There may be questions put to you that you do not know
the answer to. And for those questions I would suggest an
appropriate response is, "I don't know the answer to that
particular question."
During breaks I am instructing you that you cannot speak
to your counsel about your testimony. Sir, is that
understood?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, it is.
PRESIDING MEMBER: At this time I'm going to ask the
claimant to stand and be sworn in.
Sir, please stand, raise your right hand and state your
name. Your name, sir?
MALE CLAIMANT: Tolyan Zelinski.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Do you solemnly affirm that the
testimony that you're about to give shall be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, I do.
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PRESIDING MEMBER: You may be seated. I should indicate

on record that this matter is scheduled for a full day. So
obviously from my perspective I believe we can finish this
today. What do you think, Counsel?
COUNSEL: I hope so.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Yeah. I hope so too; that's a better
way of saying it. That's why we put it for one day.
Counsel, would you be so kind as to put in front of the
claimant his BOC and have the document turned to the
claimant's declaration?
Sir, your counsel has put in front of you your Basis of
Claim Form. And that's basically the written part of your
claim today. Your counsel has turned your BOC to a certain
page that has signatures on it. Can you identify the
signature, sir?
MALE CLAIMANT: Here it is, yes.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And whose signature is it?
MALE CLAIMANT: This is my signature.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay. Counsel, you may sit down for a
moment. I just want to have a brief conversation with you.
I don't want to go into any details on this. I just want
general answers. Because I don't want to pierce
solicitor/client relationship.
I'm assuming that you went through the BOC with the
claimant. Would that be correct, Counsel?
PRESIDING MEMBER: So you're aware why I'm asking that.
I just want to make sure that the claimant understands his
BOC and the content of it.
COUNSEL: Yes, I do understand.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Just, just a brief moment, please.
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Okay. So the claimant did not need an interpreter, he

states. He signed it in Declaration A.
COUNSEL: That is correct. My understanding is that the
claimant did not need it for the purpose of this form, as he
does not need an interpreter here today.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay. No, no. That's fine. I just
want this on record.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay. Sir, you've identified your
signature on your BOC. Is the information in your BOC,
including the narrative – that's the written part of your
claim – is it true and correct?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you. Thank you very much.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you. I'm going to take back all
the documents, Counsel.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, I'd like to ask a few questions.
Dr. Zelinski, what is your birth date?
MALE CLAIMANT: Twenty-sixth of June of 1989.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And where were you born?
MALE CLAIMANT: I was born in Simferopol(ph), Ukraine.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And you're a citizen of what country?
MALE CLAIMANT: Ukraine.
PRESIDING MEMBER: While living in Ukraine, what city did
you reside? Where did you mostly reside in, what city?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well in the most part I lived at the city
of Simferopol, Crimea, Ukraine. In 2018, I moved to
Yevpatoria, Crimea, Ukraine to complete my medical
residency. I moved back to Simferopol when I completed that
in May 2019.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes? Before leaving Ukraine is that
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where you lived, before coming to Canada?

MALE CLAIMANT: Immediately before my departure to Canada
approximately from May 2019 to August of 2021 my main, prime
place of residence was the city of Simferopol, Crimea.
PRESIDING MEMBER: If you were to return to Ukraine is
there anyone or anything that you would fear?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, I am fearful. I fear for my life.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Who or what do you fear?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well I fear some people. To be more
precise, those individuals who hate other individuals of
non-traditional orientation, sexual orientation.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And what is your sexual orientation?
MALE CLAIMANT: Homosexual.
PRESIDING MEMBER: It is my understanding that some
individuals can obtain Russian passports if they live in
Crimea. Did you ever obtain a Russian passport?
MALE CLAIMANT: No.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Would you be able to obtain a Russian
passport now?
MALE CLAIMANT: No. As I am no longer living in Crimea I
cannot apply for one. Moreover, they would likely never
give a Russian passport to somebody who is gay, even if I
were living in Crimea, as it is against the law in Russia to
be gay.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Could you go to live in Russia if you
wanted to?
MALE CLAIMANT: No, I could not.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And if you were to return – it's my
understanding from your testimony – if you were to return to
Ukraine you fear other Ukrainians who hate gays? Is my
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understanding correct?
MALE CLAIMANT: Absolutely true, correct. And since
Russia has annexed Crimea, the position of the Russian
government is to persecute gays.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Is there any other reason or put
another way, are there any other fears you have about
returning to Ukraine if you had to?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes. I heard from a friend of mine a
little while ago that I was convicted of a crime for being
homosexual and sentenced to 8 months in jail. He said that
there is a warrant out for my arrest.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Do you have any documents to
demonstrate that you have been convicted or that there is a
warrant issued against you?
MALE CLAIMANT: No, my friend—he just told me.
PRESIDING MEMBER: How did your friend find out?
MALE CLAIMANT: He said he heard it from somebody else.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Do you have this person’s name? Or do
you have any evidence at all to confirm that this happened?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well… No.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Uh-huh. Okay, are there any other
reasons that you fear returning to Ukraine?
MALE CLAIMANT: No; those are the main reasons, the main
aspect. Again, as I stated, I also cannot return to my home
in Simferopol since the Russians invaded Crimea and have
taken control. Putin has made his anti-gay laws very clear.
PRESIDING MEMBER: What do you believe would happen to
you if you were to return to Ukraine?
MALE CLAIMANT: I believe that in the very near, nearest
future, I would be killed.
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PRESIDING MEMBER: Would it be fair to say that you

believe if you return to Ukraine and you would be killed,
would that be because of your sexual orientation?
MALE CLAIMANT: Absolutely correct.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Can you tell me more about why you
fear you would be killed because of your sexual orientation?
MALE CLAIMANT: As a collateral one, so to speak, given
what happened to me during the last years, happened to me, a
person of non-traditional sexual orientation.
In January of 2020, my partner Peter and I came home to
our apartment to find “Die Pervert” painted on our front
door. We moved. We even decided to leave Crimea and the
Russians to check out life in Kyiv (Kiev)- if it would be
better but people looked at us together and either would not
consider renting to us or they doubled the rent. We came
back to Simferopol.
In June 2020 we were celebrating my birthday in the park
when a group of 4 men were watching us. They began to shout
at us. I went to them and confronted them. They called me
names like “Shit” and “Pederast”. As they left, they said
they would get us later. We left the park, went to a
restaurant patio for dinner and then walked home. When we
got there, the 4 men were there. They beat me because I was
the one who confronted them. Peter watched in horror while
one of them held him back. I was in the hospital for a month
recovering from my injuries. This is how I know.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, you were living with a woman in
Ukraine. Can you please describe your relationship with this
woman?
MALE CLAIMANT: I apologize to correct, but Crimea is no
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longer Ukraine. I am one of the minority in that I am a

Ukrainian. Many citizens of Crimea trace their nationality
to Russia which is why they voted to be annexed by Russia in
March 2014. So not only am I a homosexual but I am
Ukrainian.
About my friend, Lydia Poboyko, whom I have known since
2019. After I got out of the hospital in August 2020, Peter
and I made the very hard decision not to see each other
anymore as it was too dangerous. He moved back into his
parents’ home. His father is a professor and accepting of
his son. Unlike my mother and sister who are very religious
and have disowned me. I moved in with Lydia who is a lesbian
in October 2020. My being there made it look like we were a
couple. Her partner, Tanya, could be there too and no one
seemed to mind as long as it looked like Lydia and I were
together. For the first time in a long time I felt safe, as
did Lydia. I could not be myself or see Peter but I was
safe.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And you say, it's your, it was your
testimony that you know of such situations, you said you
had, you knew of precedents of gays who were punished by the
government or government officials? Can you please
describe?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, I do know of this precedents, of
similar precedents. My example, after being beaten on my
birthday in 2020, I was advised not to report the beating to
the police who treat the gay community very badly, either
not pursuing the abusers or blackmailing gay people in order
to protect them. Since the annexation, the Berkut, the state
police, serve the Russian agenda and state. Human and civil
 - 11 - LPP21-02122

rights are not important. In May of 2019, Lydia’s girlfriend,

Tanya, was attacked by 3 men who raped her telling her all
she needed was man. Lydia has been active for years in the
what is now a very underground support system for gays and
lesbians. I was so busy becoming a doctor that I wasn’t
always aware of what was going on. Before I left to work
with Dr. Adnan in Toronto, we found out that Ivan Lapatin,
my first love in school, had been found beaten to death in
Sevastopol. His attackers had written the Russian equivalent
of “dead queer” on his body.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Can you explain to me a little bit
more about why you felt you had to pretend to be in a
heterosexual relationship?
MALE CLAIMANT: By virtue of the fact that there were all
kinds of bans, there were all kinds of prohibitions issued
and inflicted on people like us by our authorities, by our
state, for many, many years. Homosexuality by itself is
viewed, considered a sickness. I’m a doctor, I know this is
not the truth, but many view it as a sickness. Like prakaza
(ph).
PRESIDING MEMBER: I'm sorry?
MALE CLAIMANT: I'm trying to find the word for the
prakaza. Like ---
COUNSEL: I can't think of the English equivalent.
MALE CLAIMANT: Leprosy. Thank you. This is the
opinion, the view taken by the society, the society where I
was born and raised. And then I began to realize that I
happened to have a different sexual orientation, different
from other people around me.
It first of all made me scared. And then afterwards I
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tried to find means of treatments to cure it, because in our

society homosexualism is a sickness. But it is not and I am
who I am.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Dr. Tolyan is it your testimony that
you were assaulted because of your orientation?
MALE CLAIMANT: Back in Crimea? I was severely beaten by
3 men while the other held my partner back on my birthday,
June 26, 2020.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And Dr. Tolyan, did you ever report
these assaults to the police?
MALE CLAIMANT: No, of course not.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Why not? Is there any record of these
assaults at all?
MALE CLAIMANT: There would be a hospital record that I
was in hospital for a month. I had surgery to repair my
liver and spleen as well as some plastic surgery on my face
to repair my nose. The police, I would see them beat up on
gays as well. One of my friends from medical school had
once reported to police… and they did nothing. Sometimes I
would witness other gay friends being assaulted by police,
too. So I could not even think about reporting any of the
assaults on me to the police. Again, they also blackmail
gays- “we will protect you and not say anything if you pay
us”. I had to keep things entirely private and live a lie
publically.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Dr. Tolyan, have you given these
medical records to your Counsel? Are they in the record here
today for consideration in support of your claim?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, and I have the medical scars to
prove it.
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PRESIDING MEMBER: The medical records are sufficient.

Let’s move on. Are you saying Dr. Tolyan that you did not
even feel protected by the State?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, that’s true. This is exactly how I
felt. Again, since Crimea has been annexed by Russia, it is
worse. The Berkut, the state police, uphold the state. The
West is aware of what happened during the Sochi Olympics.
Russia made it known that their laws – Anti-Gay Propaganda
Law and the Anti-Blasphemy Law – give the police the
authority not to protect homosexuals.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And can you tell me, Dr. Tolyan, how
many parts of Ukraine did you live in? Where did you live
while in Ukraine?
MALE CLAIMANT: I was born in Simferopol, Crimea, Ukraine
in 1989. I have lived most of my life in Simferopol. I
completed my residency to be a doctor in Yevpatoria, Crimea
and then back to Simferopol. I have visited Kyiv (Kiev)
several times and used to travel to Donetsk to watch my
favourite soccer team. The team has relocated to Lviv, which
is close to the Polish border, due to the unrest in eastern
Ukraine around Donetsk. The Russians are there, too. I have
attended health conferences in Western Europe, Germany and
England. Also visited Spain and Turkey.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And was your experience regarding your
sexual orientation the same throughout these different
locations? Can you please describe your experiences in each?
MALE CLAIMANT: Whether in Ukraine or Crimea, being a
homosexual was never easy but much worse since 2014. The
Russian state does not protect homosexuals. Even in
Ukrainian culture, we value the strong man, the what is it
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called – machismo - being a man. My father called me sissy

sometimes and I felt I had to prove myself to be accepted by
him. When Peter and I considered a move to Kyiv, we
discovered that though a much larger city with closer ties
to the west, that people felt they could treat us badly.
There were some clubs where we felt ok - safe as other gays
were there and accepted, but that was rare. In Cologne,
Germany it was like freedom, as was Manchester, England.
Men and women held hands in public. Gay couples could
have children and be a family. In Russia, they take away
children from gay couples, that is their law.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Dr. Tolyan, you were free to study and
work in Ukraine and had a fairly positive medical practice,
yes?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, I have been very successful in
Crimea as part of the Polyclinic in Simferopol. I am a good
doctor. When I realized at 14 that I was gay, I was
determined to be the best student I could be. Keep my head
down and hope for change either in me or in society. I
studied very hard to be a doctor. Being a doctor means a
great deal to me. My patients trust me and that I will look
after them. I am very proud of all that I have accomplished
and built in Crimea.
PRESIDING MEMBER: You have outlined your ability to
attain many successes in Crimea and Ukraine. Yet it's my
understanding from your testimony so far and the documents
filed that, despite these successes, you believe it's a very
dangerous place for gays, in Crimea and Ukraine. Is that
correct?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes that’s what I’m saying – I was
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professionally successful. But I had to live a double life.

Personally, I had not ability to live my true life, because
if I did, I would be beaten and not allowed to continue my
work and success. Some of my patients may wonder about my
life and may suspect who I am. That can be dangerous. I
could be reported to the authorities as I also treat
children and could be accused of gay propaganda or
blasphemy. Living with Lydia helped but it is still a lie.
It is with heavy heart that I made the decision to leave my
country. But it was just not possible for me to continue to
live there at all, and so I had to leave it all behind me. I
just could not go on there anymore. Canada is so much more
accepting and safe and progressive. I feel here, I can live
my professional life and work for success, but also be who I
really am, and live and love who I really want to.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, I'd like to ask you more about
your decision to come to Canada recently. Can you please
tell me how that came about?
MALE CLAIMANT: In the Fall 2020, when Canada started to
allow international students to enter the country again, I
had contacted a pre-eminent specialist, Dr. Ralph Adnan in
Toronto, Canada, about the possibility of studying with him.
He invited me to join him in August or September 2021. It
was a professional chance of a lifetime to be able to study
with Dr. Adnan. I also needed a break from Simferopol and
from Ukraine in general. I had not taken a long vacation in
years.
Lydia was very excited and supportive for me to join Dr.
Adnan. She has a friend living in Toronto. As you may know,
there is quite the diaspora of Ukrainian people in the world
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and many are in Canada. Lydia knew that I would enjoy

meeting her friend, Sonya Luzhina, as she is a nurse who
works at North York General Hospital and could provide me
with insights into health care in Canada. Sonya told Lydia
that the society is more liberal in Canada and that the LGBT
people’s rights are protected. I wanted to go there and see
that for myself.
I applied for visitor visa in December 2020 and I
received it in June, 2021. I travelled to Canada in August
2021.
On August 15, 2021, I landed in Toronto and underwent the
mandatory quarantine as I had not yet received both doses of
my Covid-19 vaccine. I moved in with Sonya, who agreed to
have me live with her in North York, Ontario, including
allowing me to quarantine as necessary for 14 days in her
basement apartment. After that I was able to begin working
with Dr. Adnan at St. Mike’s, which I ultimately did start
on September 1, 2021 through the Li Ka Shing Institute –
that’s an organization that supports international doctors
exchanging expertise and knowledge.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Could you please tell me when you made
your refugee claim, after arrival in Canada.
MALE CLAIMANT: I think it was about one month after I
arrived, a couple of weeks after I started studying under
Dr. Adnan.
PRESIDING MEMBER: One month, Dr. Zelinski? And why did
you wait so long, if you feared for your life?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well, truthfully, I did not know much
about the process initially and I was getting information
that I needed.
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PRESIDING MEMBER: Dr. Zelinski, how would you have known

that Canada was a safer place? Why did you think the
situation would be different for you?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well, as I have said, in Ukraine I would
be faced, or would be ostracized by the members of society,
personally and professionally, if they knew my true
identity. Of course psychologically it would be very
damaging, it would be very bad. A couple of my colleagues
had travelled to Canada for work or conferences and we would
discuss, upon their return, how society was here. Also I
follow closely on social media the news in Canada and I see
how open it is – very different from what I was
experiencing. Once I decided to come to the Toronto
conference, Lydia and I Skyped with her friend, Sonya, in
Toronto.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Let’s go back to your woman friend in
Ukraine. Did you know from the beginning of your friendship
that she was gay?
MALE CLAIMANT: No, not at first – again, people are not
very open about this.
PRESIDING MEMBER: So when and how did you learn that she
was a lesbian?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well, from the beginning I suspected,
because of Lydia’s wardrobe and hairstyle. And I would
often see her with one other woman and they seemed very
close, but they were always very proper when in public. At
some point when we got to know each other better around
2018, I opened up to her about my situation and she was so
relieved I had shared this information with her. We then
decided, for our mutual safety, that in public we would
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pretend to be a couple.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, earlier you had mentioned you met
Ms. Poboyko in 2019. But now you say you became friends in
2018. Which is it?
MALE CLAIMANT: I’m sorry, let me think. I met her in
2018, before leaving to start my residency in Yevpatoria and
we met again when I returned to Simferopol. Lydia opened up
to me when she heard through the “underground” that Peter
and I had experienced abuse – incidents of being called
pedophiles. We became friends then. So, we knew each other
well after Peter and I parted and I moved in with her in
October 2020.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Well, sir, you and Ms. Poboyko felt it
necessary to conceal your situation, but was that personal
to the two of you?
MALE CLAIMANT: The situation for me got worse over the
years, if ever I was out in public with my boyfriend/lover
we were harassed and called names. We had rude words painted
on our front door. I was beaten. Lydia and I have never been
lovers though she is my good friend. We protected each other
as times became worse in Crimea under the Russians.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir. I can understand what you'd like
us to talk about, and I can assure you, most of my
questions, and I know your counsel's questions, will be
about your particular situation.
But sir, what we talk about is things that I think are
important for me to understand so I can make a decision
whether you are a Convention refugee or a person at risk.
So that's within my discretion, sir. Okay?
But I can assure you it's going to be focused on your
 - 19 - LPP21-02122

case, your situation. But I'm concerned about, and your

counsel will be concerned about, what is the country
conditions in Ukraine. That's, and that's the purpose of my
questions, sir.
I'm telling you this not to be disrespectful, but it's
always, what I like in my hearings is that the claimant
understands why I'm asking questions.
Sir, I'd like to talk some more about when you and Lydia
Poboyko first met and your views of how gays were treated in
Ukraine, the country conditions for gays in Ukraine.
Like let me start specifically by asking, during this
time did you – in your opinion how were gays treated, for
example by the police?
MALE CLAIMANT: Unfriendly.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Can you explain that a little bit
more? What do you mean unfriendly.
INTERPETER: Not amicable.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Can you explain that a little bit
more, sir?
MALE CLAIMANT: If there were to be an accident, an
incident with two, with some participants and one of them
were gay, even that participant who was gay, even if he was
right, he was not in the wrong, he was in the right, then
the police would not take his side anyway.
PRESIDING MEMBER: That's because he was gay.
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Now I'd like to get back to a question
I asked about four minutes ago. I asked for your opinion as
to when did you think things got worse in Ukraine for gays.
MALE CLAIMANT: I believe when the society began to
 - 20 - LPP21-02122

gradually radicalize.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And when did they gradually begin to
radicalize, sir?
MALE CLAIMANT: In 2013 the Ukrainian Parliament under
Yanukovych was in negotiation with the European Union to
develop a closer relationship with Ukraine so we would look
west instead of east to Russia. But Yanukovych from eastern
Ukraine was playing a game and really Russia centred. By
this time, Russia had enacted its laws about Anti-Gay
Propaganda and Anti-Blasphemy in 2012. Protests began with
the Euromaiden supporters demanding that Yanukovych resign
and he was thrown out. Vladimir Putin called this a coup.
The south, the Crimea, and eastern Ukraine supported
Yanukovych and Russian forces were supporting the Russian
populations in Crimea and the east. Russian soldiers were
sent to Crimea February 27, 2014. A day I will not forget.
By March 16, 2014, a referendum was held and the majority
agreed to leave Ukraine and as of March 18, 2014, Russia
annexed Crimea. Russian law prevails. I still have a
Ukrainian passport as I am not considered Russian.
PRESIDING MEMBER: So how did this affect gays?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well people became more intolerant
towards people who were projecting different ideas, the
people with different ideas altogether, views.
And as you understand, gays belong to the part of society
which has its own path to follow, which is different from
the majority of, majority of members of the society.
And this intolerance naturally was directed at and
affected gays. Ukraine’s desire in 2013 to move toward
Europe was derided by Russians and Ukrainians as “Gayropa”.
 - 21 - LPP21-02122

PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, as you previously mentioned, that

you understood from colleagues about Canada’s better
treatment for gays, did you ever apply for Immigration
status in Canada?
MALE CLAIMANT: No, I never really thought about it. Even
now, I wish I could go back.
PRESIDING MEMBER: So even though you say the situation
was very bad, and you were learning about Canada, you never
made any attempt to apply for status in Canada?
MALE CLAIMANT: No – Ukraine, Crimea, was my country; I
went to school there; I built a practice; I have family,
friends. I so very much would prefer to be able to live
there – but things got so very bad, especially these past
years. When the opportunity to study with Dr. Adnan came up,
it suddenly came to my mind that maybe this was the chance I
needed to be free from the cruelty and poor, poor treatment
I face in my own country. That’s when I first began to
really think of leaving and seeking help from Canada.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Dr. Zelinski, please confirm when you
entered Canada specifically, and what you have been doing
since your arrival?
MALE CLAIMANT: I applied for a visa in December 2020. I
received my visa in June 2021. I arrived in Toronto on
August 15, 2020. I did my quarantine at Sonya Luzhina’s
house, she is Lydia’s friend. Sonya is Canadian. Her family
immigrated to Canada in 1990. I was staying with Sonya as it
would make the trip less expensive. I quarantined in Sonya’s
basement for the necessary 14 days and then met Dr. Adnan
and started studying under him as of September 1st at St.
Mike’s hospital, sponsored by the Li Ka Shing Institute. We
 - 22 - LPP21-02122

have been looking at some very interesting medical issues,

including my observing an online conference at which Dr.
Adnan was presenting, called the Sim One conference from
September 5 to 7, 2021. That was very interesting to me
about medical education using simulation - wonderful life-
like robots, etc.
I have been living with Sonya Luzhina since my arrival.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay thank you, so to confirm. You
applied for a visa and were approved by June 2021. You
arrived on August 15, 2021. You have been living with Sonya
Luzhina since then. And you have been studying under Dr.
Adnan at St. Mike’s and attended a virtual medical-related
conference since your arrival.
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes. Yes.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Was there any other reasons why you
wanted to come to Canada?
MALE CLAIMANT: No, I wanted to feel safe – is that not
enough? I left everything I have and loved to come here,
because I felt unsafe. However, since I have been here I
also realize there is much I can learn about treatments and
educating doctors. Information here is wonderful and
exciting.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay and sir, just one more time, you
mentioned in your Basis of Claim your relationship with
Peter Luzhenko.
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, he and I were together for 4 years.
We met when I was in Yevpatoria and he was on holiday. It is
a seaside town. He waited for me to finish my residency. He
was also from Simferopol.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, wait, sorry, you just said 4 years
 - 23 - LPP21-02122

but earlier, my notes – let me refer here… yes, in my notes,

you said that you started your residency in 2018 so only 3
years ago. What’s the correct answer, sir?
MALE CLAIMANT: I am sorry – I am nervous and lost track
of my thoughts. I first visited Yevpatoria to register for
my residency program in 2017 so that was 4 years ago. We did
tours and found our places where we would live. I started my
residency in 2018 and I met Peter when he was on holiday in
May 2018. We were together for a month, wonderful but
dangerous and then he returned to Simferopol. We stayed in
touch. In May 2019, when I returned to Simferopol to be a
doctor for real, Peter met me at the train station. We were
together until October 2020, when we made the decision to be
apart in order to be safe.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, it was your testimony at the
beginning of the hearing that if you returned to Ukraine or
Crimea, you could be murdered because of your sexual
orientation.
You also later said that you wished you could go back.
MALE CLAIMANT: I told you that I wished I could go back
but that I feared for my life – are you not listening to me?
Who would not want to live in freedom, be yourself, love who
you love in the country that you love and know.
PRESIDING MEMBER: I realize you are upset and that this
is upsetting, sir. But my role is to establish the grounds
for your claim, and so why I am asking you these things. Is
it your testimony that you believe that if you return to
Ukraine or Crimea that you would be seriously harmed because
of your sexual orientation?
MALE CLAIMANT: Absolutely.
 - 24 - LPP21-02122

PRESIDING MEMBER: Would there be any other problems, any

other concerns that you'd have if the people in your
community found out that you are gay?
MALE CLAIMANT: I may not be able to perform my job, to
earn an income. Many people would be scared to be attended
by a physician who is gay, for fear – silly, yes, but that
they will “catch” homosexuality or that something bad will
happen to them. I would be ridiculed and ostracized. And
some people would think nothing of physically hurting me…
and the police would offer absolutely no support at all.
PRESIDING MEMBER: I was wondering if you could provide
me with approximately a date – a general, very general date
– as to when you believe things got worse for gays in
Ukraine and in which they could have been physically harmed
if their sexual orientation was known.
MALE CLAIMANT: As I stated earlier, with the changes and
power struggles in Ukraine and the pull between Europe in
the West and Russia in the East ending with the Russian
annexing Crimea in 2014, my country – Crimea and Ukraine use
gay rights or the denial of them as good politics to win
positions of power. Human Rights and civil Rights – doing
what is good and right does not matter.
PRESIDING MEMBER: In the past 10 years have you been to
any other countries other than Canada? Have you visited any
other countries other than Canada?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, I went to Turkey.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Any other countries?
MALE CLAIMANT: Turkey was a holiday in May of 2019.
Prior to that I went abroad as well, but I believe in the
last 3 to 4 years was just a trip, went on a trip to Turkey.
 - 25 - LPP21-02122

PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay. But in the past 10 years, so

from 2010 to 2020, you went to Turkey. Any other countries?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well I went to Germany and England for
conferences; I went to Switzerland, Italy, Spain. Maybe I
did not mention some countries.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And you spoke about these four
countries. Did you, were you seeing all these countries in
one visit? Stopping in these countries for short periods of
time?
MALE CLAIMANT: There were different travels to different
countries in different times. England and Germany for
conferences and others for short visits.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay.
MALE CLAIMANT: I'm a soccer fan, for instance. So I
went to watch the game.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Okay. So do you know the dates of
these various trips, to Turkey, and then to Germany,
Switzerland, Italy and Spain?
MALE CLAIMANT: To be honest with you I don't remember
the exact dates. Turkey was May 2019. The other trips were
maybe 2 before that year (yes, because Peter told me he
didn’t like me going often). And then 2 after we parted.
Honestly I don't really know. We'd have to look it up in my
passport, in the records.
I don't want to mislead you. The majority of my trips
were related to soccer games, soccer tournaments, together
with our favourite Ukraine soccer team, known as Donetsk
Shaktov (ph). They now have to play in Lviv because of the
war in eastern Ukraine and the Russians.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Sir, how many times have you been to
 - 26 - LPP21-02122

Germany approximately?
MALE CLAIMANT: Twice.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And those two times, approximately how
long were you in Germany?
MALE CLAIMANT: Once I stayed in Germany for
approximately two weeks – that was for a conference. And
once three days max, while the games lasted…
PRESIDING MEMBER: And this occurred sometime around what
years? How old were you when you went for the two weeks,
how old were you?
MALE CLAIMANT: I believe it was the year of 2018.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Switzerland, how many times have you
been to Switzerland?
MALE CLAIMANT: Once. No, just a moment. Give me a
second; it was a short trip, so I left for a soccer game for
the same team for three days.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And how long, what year was that?
Again, what year?
MALE CLAIMANT: Hmm, sometime between 2014 and 2015,
within this period of time.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Italy, how many times in Italy?
MALE CLAIMANT: Twice I went there, also for a soccer
game.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And approximately how old were you
during that time?
MALE CLAIMANT: I believe I was a bit older. It was the
year of 2016 or 2017; I was roughly 27 or 28 years old or
something like this.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And Spain, how many times have you
been to Spain?
 - 27 - LPP21-02122

MALE CLAIMANT: Once, once.

PRESIDING MEMBER: And how old were you about that time?
MALE CLAIMANT: It was all approximately within the same
period of time.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Either when you went to Germany,
Switzerland, Italy, Spain, did you consider making a claim
for asylum based on your sexual orientation?
MALE CLAIMANT: No.
PRESIDING MEMBER: And why is that?
MALE CLAIMANT: Well, my visits there (except for Germany
and England) were for very brief periods of time. The
thought hadn’t even crossed my mind actually – maybe because
my understanding of all those places is that situations for
homosexuals is not as good there as it is in Canada. Most of
soccer trips and even conferences were before the annexation
of Crimea or before Peter and I felt our only choice was to
live apart. I hadn’t felt, I guess, that my situation would
be far better there – it really hadn’t crossed my mind, even
though things were difficult for me (and Peter) in Ukraine -
Crimea.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Other than this trip to Canada, have
you ever been in Canada prior to this time?
MALE CLAIMANT: No.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you for answering my questions,
sir. Counsel, do you have any questions for the claimant?
COUNSEL: Yes, thank you. All right, Tolyan, I'm going
to just ask you a few questions now, too, just to clarify.
MALE CLAIMANT: Okay, fine.
COUNSEL: Let me ask you a bit more about Peter. When
did your relationship with Peter end?
 - 28 - LPP21-02122

MALE CLAIMANT: In October 2020.

COUNSEL: And what was the reason for the termination of
the relationship?
MALE CLAIMANT: After I was beaten in June 2020, I became
paranoid. I just never felt safe. I was always watching and
listening. I would have nightmares and scream at night.
Sonya says I may have PTSD. Peter was worried about me and
worried that those men might find us again and we might
truly be in danger.
PRESIDING MEMBER: The question was why the termination.
COUNSEL: If you could just, maybe just, the summary of
the reason.
MALE CLAIMANT: Peter and I did not feel safe to be
together. It would be better for us and for me in particular
if we lived apart. I needed some peace. Peter feared I would
become sick with all the anxiety and worry. I was becoming
depressed.
COUNSEL: How did you feel that Peter offered to separate
for your health and well-being?
MALE CLAIMANT: It was a very trying and traumatic period
of time for both of us. We loved each other and if we stayed
together we could both be killed. If I were to be beaten
again, I might never recover, never be able to be a doctor
due to possible brain damage.
Because the relationship we had was, the relationship
which lasted long, and I thought it will never end; it will
be there forever. It was very painful for me. Then I felt
guilty – after moving in with Lydia and pretending to be
heterosexual, because I felt some relief, I felt safe. I
missed Peter every day.
 - 29 - LPP21-02122

COUNSEL: According to your understanding of Ukrainian

and Russian society and the societal prejudices against gay
people, could you and Peter have lived openly together
anywhere in Ukraine?
MALE CLAIMANT: Sadly, no.
COUNSEL: Are you dating any men currently in Canada?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, just recently I met, I met a person,
an individual.
COUNSEL: And who is that person?
MALE CLAIMANT: His name is Ryan McGaw.
COUNSEL: And is he gay?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, he is.
COUNSEL: And when did you meet that person?
MALE CLAIMANT: We met in the 519 Centre. Sonya took me
there to meet other gay people who are committed to doing
good work.
COUNSEL: And when did you meet him?
MALE CLAIMANT: We met on October 2, 2021
COUNSEL: And what were you doing in, at the 519
Community Centre?
MALE CLAIMANT: Sonya thought it would be a good place to
meet others without it being a bar or something. I can be
shy so I was looking to meet people and find out if there
was any way I could be of help. I am a doctor still though I
cannot practice here. I was looking for good conversations.
COUNSEL: All right. And so what is the stage of this
relationship with Ryan McGaw?
MALE CLAIMANT: We began with coffee conversations like
that but now I would say we have had a few dates.
COUNSEL: And is Ryan available to testify to that?
 - 30 - LPP21-02122

MALE CLAIMANT: I believe so.

COUNSEL: Is he available to provide this evidence today?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes.
COUNSEL: Okay. So if the panel were to call that
witness he is available today?
MALE CLAIMANT: Yes, because I told him about this
hearing today and he has been very, very supportive. He has
helped others from Crimea who have come here. I have now met
them and we actually have common friends back in Crimea.
It's very valuable for me to have his support and
understanding in this new country, and I'm grateful to him
for that.
COUNSEL: All right. So these are all my questions
subject to direction from the panel about my ability to call
Ryan, Mr. McGaw, as a witness.
PRESIDING MEMBER: That's your – it's pursuant to the
rules, Counsel. And you ask whether the panel wants. It's
not the panel. You had every opportunity. The answer is
no. (inaudible) asking me whether to bring in a witness;
you've had every opportunity to present, to the Rules. No,
I'm not going to grant it.
There was ample opportunity to have got that witness.
COUNSEL: Right. Except, sir, that the claimant just
identified that he met this person three weeks ago.
PRESIDING MEMBER: Yeah, so you've had an opportunity to
bring him here. No.
PRESIDING MEMBER: So for all practical purposes the
hearing is over. But as it’s already quite late, I will not
take your oral submissions today Counsel. I will ask that
you, or a representative, be prepared to attend on a day to
 - 31 - LPP21-02122

be confirmed in the week of October 18, 2021 to provide me

with the oral submissions. The Division will confirm the
exact date and time. Is that acceptable, Counsel?

COUNSEL: Yes, that’s acceptable, thanks.

PRESIDEING MEMBER: So Dr. Zelinski, after you and your
representative return and your representative provides me
with their brief oral submissions, I will consider their
submissions, together with my review of all the testimony
today and the documentary evidence and I'll then render a
decision in a short period of time and you'll get it by mail
and Counsel will get it by mail.
I'd like to thank both of you for coming. Counsel, it's
always good to see you.
COUNSEL: Thank you, sir; same.
PRESIDING MEMBER: This hearing is over.
COUNSEL: Thank you.

--- HEARING CONCLUDED

I HEREBY DECLARE THAT THIS IS A TRUE

TRANSCRIPT OF THE TAPE AND THAT I HAVE
SWORN THE OATH OF SECRECY

______________________________________
Brittany Stevenson
For RU Transcribing
Security #1234567

October 6, 2021