INTERVIEW WITH ANNE FONTAINE

DIRECTOR OF “THE INNOCENTS”,

A FEATURE FILM SUPPORTED BY
EURIMAGES

OCTOBER 2019

BY TARA KARAJICA

Anne Fontaine © Marcel Hartmann

Before becoming a filmmaker, Luxembourg-born Anne tioned in Poland in the aftermath of the Second World
Fontaine was an actress known for her roles in com- War.
edies such as “Si ma gueule vous plaît...” (1981) and
“P.R.O.F.S.” (1985). An opportunity to be assistant di- HOW DID “THE INNOCENTS” COME ABOUT?
rector came with a 1986 stage version of Céline’s “Voy- I was offered the film by the producers – Eric and Nico-
age au bout de la nuit” (“Journey to the End of the las Altmayer – who had developed the story, loose-
Night”) at the Renaud-Barrault theatre. Fontaine’s first ly based on real events. It felt very familiar to me on
project as solo director, “Les histoires d’amour finissent an emotional level. I didn’t hesitate and immediately
mal ... en général” (“Love Affairs Usually End Badly”), jumped on board.
won the 1993 Prix Jean Vigo. She wrote and directed
the successful “Nettoyage à Sec” (Dry Cleaning”) that CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE TITLE AND ITS VARIATIONS
won the Best Screenplay Award at the 1997 Venice IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGES (“LES INNOCENTES” AND
Film Festival and is generally considered a milestone “AGNUS DEI”)?
on Fontaine’s way to becoming “an important figure
in contemporary French cinema”. Many other films I can’t say much about these changes. “Les Inno-
followed, including the critically acclaimed hit “Coco centes” was our original working title. It is our sales
avant Chanel” (“Coco Before Chanel”) in 2009, her bi- agents who suggested “Agnus Dei” for some countries.
opic of Coco Chanel, nominated for six César awards, I guess the various distributors did choose from those
four BAFTA awards, three European Film awards and two options – “Agnus Dei” or a local translation of “The
one Academy award. Fontaine’s work is not easily cat- Innocents” – based on market-related considerations.
egorised, though the phrase “psychological drama” is My only remark would be that the lack of gender in the
often used. English term “innocents” implies that we refer both to
the children and the nuns, whereas the feminine form
Tara Karajica talks to Anne Fontaine about her 2016 of the French word (“innocentes”) refers to the nuns
film, “The Innocents”, a powerful tale about the sex- as a priority. I’m fine with both.
ual abuse of nuns in wartime Poland, inspired by the
exploits of Madeleine Pauliac, a Red Cross doctor sta-
1– COUNCIL OF EUROPE - EURIMAGES INTERVIEW WITH ANNE FONTAINE - OCTOBER 2019
 THE CORROSIVE NATURE OF SHAME – PARTIC-
ULARLY IN A SITUATION WHERE IT IS UNDE-
SERVED – IS ONE OF THE KEY THEMES IN THE
SCREENPLAY YOU CO-WROTE WITH SABRINA
B. KARINE, ALICE VIAL AND PASCAL BONITZER,
DELVING INTO AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION
FROM EVERY POSSIBLE MORAL, SPIRITUAL AND
INSTITUTIONAL ANGLE. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT
THAT?

I hope the film talks about this better than I could

myself! Let’s say that transgression usually seems
to me the only way out of what you call “an im-
possible situation”. The two leading figures in the
“The Innocents” © Anna Wloch story, Doctor Mathilde and Sister Maria, both
THE FILM DISTINGUISHES THE NUNS FROM ONE AN- cross lines, strictly defined lines, be it by the military
OTHER IN THEIR RESPONSES TO THE BRUTALITY THEY or the religious authorities. They seem to disobey their
HAD EXPERIENCED AND THEIR DIFFERENT ABILITIES respective sets of rules but, in fact, by doing so, they
TO COPE WITH IT. THEY ARE INDIVIDUALS WITH save the higher purposes the rules they’re breaking
THEIR OWN UNIQUE FEELINGS, CONVICTIONS, PER- were meant to protect and no longer can.
SONAL HISTORIES AND VARYING DEGREES OF FAITH.
CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THAT? IT ALSO WEAVES TOGETHER VARIOUS OTHER THEMES
SUCH AS THE INFLUENCE OF RELIGION ON THE DE-
I think we often make the mistake to assume that any VOTED, THE UNIQUE WAY IN WHICH WOMEN BOND
strong community is united, which is almost never the WITH EACH OTHER AND THE IMPORTANCE OF RE-
case. I spent some time living with – though not quite MEMBERING HISTORY AND THE HORRORS OF WAR.
“inside” – a group of Benedictine nuns before making CAN YOU DELVE INTO THAT?
this film, and I was impressed by the diversity of their
personalities, expectations and motivations. Though I would mostly insist on the last point. Women –
the rules of their order may give a homogeneous im- religious or not – are being raped, abused and victi-
pression on the surface, these institutions are not re- mised in virtually every single country at war, and it
ally stable – it’s a living and moving body, constantly seems that it’s happening even more today than be-
reinventing itself. fore. I don’t believe I’d be able to deal with a histor-
ical subject matter, or a “period film” more generally
“THE INNOCENTS” ALSO EXPLORES HOW THESE speaking, if it didn’t resonate very clearly in our con-
ATROCITIES TEST THEIR RELIGIOUS FAITH. COM- temporary world, whether on collective or individual
MENT? terms.
Yes, that’s pretty much what the subject mat-
ter is about because there is no faith without
doubt, as summed up by Sister Maria’s state-
ment – “twenty-four hours of doubt, one second
of hope”. I think this paradigm is not restricted to
religious issues. All beliefs are sort of self-chal-
lenged, whether we’re aware of it or not. What
the sisters go through here is the utterly dramatic
expression of a universal paradox. Life – or God,
if you’d rather – generally takes us to the exact
place we’ve been running from.

“The Innocents” © Anna Wloch

2– COUNCIL OF EUROPE - EURIMAGES INTERVIEW WITH ANNE FONTAINE - OCTOBER 2019
 damned myself in order to save you”, she tells
the other sisters. Her sacrifice has been achieved
by the most reprehensible means, but it’s a sac-
rifice nonetheless.

WHAT WAS THE RESEARCH PROCESS LIKE?

It was on three levels, I would say. Firstly, study-

ing the diaries of Madeleine Pauillac, the real
“Mathilde”, on the basis of which Alice Vial and
Sabrina B. Karine had written the initial script be-
fore Pascal Bonitzer and I got involved. Secondly,
factoring into the development my experience
at the Benedictine community and my various
“The Innocents” © Anna Wloch conversations with Brother Jean-Pierre Longeat,
THE FILM RESPECTS FAITH BUT REFUSES TO PAR- a remarkable man of faith – and doubt! – who then
TAKE OF IT. IN THAT SENSE, IT IS ALSO DEFINED BY became an adviser on the film. Thirdly, finding a con-
THE PUSH-PULLS OF THE CHARACTERS’ OPPOSING vent location in north-east Poland, which proved very
WORLD VIEWS. CAN YOU COMMENT ON THAT? HOW inspiring and gave the story the sense of reality that I
DIFFICULT WAS IT TO ACHIEVE THIS BALANCE AND was actively looking for.
HAS IT EVER BECOME PERSONAL FOR YOU ON ANY
AND, WHAT ABOUT THE SHOOTING PROCESS?
LEVEL?
It was a very special two months. The cast and most of
I’m not sure I’d talk of “push-pulls”, but rather of
the crew were all living in the same hotel, a few miles
“meeting halfway”. Both Mathilde and Maria have
away from our main location, just outside a very small
conflicting beliefs and – yes – opposing world views.
town. We were sort of reproducing a closed commu-
They both get a glimpse of the other person’s perspec-
nity, not unlike the sisters in the film, deprived of any
tive and they both find a way to push back their ideo-
mundane distraction. The wonderful Polish actresses,
logical boundaries, because the unheard-of situation
led in real life as on screen by Agata Kulesza and Aga-
they’re confronted with calls for unheard-of solutions
ta Buzek – also the best of friends off screen – were
that can’t be found in their usual “boxes”. The balance
sharing all their meals, with brave Mathilde and the
at stake is not directly personal, as I’m not a believer
equally brave Lou de Laâge gradually integrating into
the way the characters are, but I can certainly relate to
the group. It was a striking case of art imitating life and
their need to break the mould.
vice versa.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT MATHILDE, SISTER MARIA
AND THE REVEREND MOTHER? HOW DO YOU
SEE THESE THREE DIFFERENT WOMEN?

I believe my views on Mathilde and Maria have

already been dealt with throughout my previous
answers to you. The Reverend Mother is some-
one we paid much attention to, with precious
help from Agata Kulesza, the wonderful actress
who plays her part. It’s a character that is very
hard to portray, in terms of writing and perfor-
mance. Her doings are dreadful, but her motiva-
tions are extremely complex – not unlike some
figures in Greek tragedy. Her final statement, the
last words we hear her saying, shows that she
is in no way unaware of what she’s done: “I’ve “The Innocents” © Anna Wloch
3– COUNCIL OF EUROPE - EURIMAGES INTERVIEW WITH ANNE FONTAINE - OCTOBER 2019
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE FILM’S AESTHETIC, ITS
VERY PAINTERLY AND OPAQUE CINEMATOGRAPHY,
COURTESY OF CAROLINE CHAMPETIER?

This is my third collaboration with Caroline, who is

possibly the most dedicated and work-absorbed per-
son I know. Of course, we had discussed art references
at length and studied many paintings from the past.
But the challenge was to keep the whole thing alive
and breathing, to retain the beauty without the still-
ness. Caroline’s fervour and ardour were crucial assets
to ensure that the film would keep moving and living.

“THE INNOCENTS” WAS MAINLY MADE BY WOMEN

IN KEY POSITIONS BEHIND THE CAMERA. CAN YOU
TALK ABOUT THIS CHOICE AND THIS COLLABORA-
TION? HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR YOU TO WORK
WITH WOMEN ON YOUR SETS?

It is not really an issue in itself for me. We – Caroline

Champetier, the producers and myself –interviewed a
number of crew members. Most of them I didn’t know
because I had no previous experience in Poland and
we went for those who sounded the better adapted to
our needs. In general, I simply try and choose whoever
seems the best fit for a specific story and under spe-
cific circumstances, even though I can’t deny that in
this case we were not indifferent to a certain collective
female sensitivity. But I don’t see gender as a stand-
alone factor.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE SITUA-

TION OF WOMEN IN FILM IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE MATTER? HOW IS IT
IN FRANCE?

Based on my exchanges with foreign colleagues, it

seems I’m lucky enough to work in France, where film-
making is far from being a male monopoly. I’ve nev-
er felt my womanhood to be a professional issue. I’m
aware this might be different in a number of other
countries.

“The opinions expressed in this interview are those of the director

concerned and in no way reflect the official position of the Council
of Europe or the Eurimages Film Fund.”
4– COUNCIL OF EUROPE - EURIMAGES INTERVIEW WITH ANNE FONTAINE - OCTOBER 2019