The structure of Timaeus 1

The creation and the structure of the world according to Plato’s Timaeus

SYS-264

Instructor: Andras Kraft

Student: Sharapov Erlan

AUCA
 The structure of Timaeus 2

The creation and the structure of the world according to Plato’s Timaeus

The Timaeus is one of the main Plato’s work embracing his concepts of metaphysical
thinking and world being structure. Timaeus is introduced in dialectic way, it is kind of thinking
according to Plato. He mentioned: “Philosophy always involves argument and discussion, ideally
with others, and requires you to be able to defend your position against the arguments of others.”
(Annas, 2003, p.83) Hence Timaeus develops in discussion style of chaos. “Timaeus, a learned
astronomer from Southern Italy, delivers a long speech, which he calls both a 'likely myth' (eikos
muthos) and a 'likely account' (eikos logos).” (Carone,2004, p.211) This research paper focuses
on Plato’s version of the world creation in Timaeus. For all that the purpose of this work
especially lies on Plato’s notion of physics by representing his “Form\Copy” Model. Annas’
study helps with definition and structuring Plato’s idea of physics (Annas, 2003). Moreover, the
research paper examines the question of whether the world is eternal due to Timaeus. The
Carone’s study (2004) analyzes this term. In addition, the work explores scientific methods as
role of math\geometry and interpretation of astronomy in Timaeus shown in investigation of
Gavin’s work (1975). Whole investigation is finalized with brief grasping of ideas of religion and
time connected with Plato’s views. Thesis statement claims that the research paper investigates
complex notion of how Plato understands and structures the world being in Timaeus, specifically
by emphasizing terms like physics, eternality and science.

Firstly, the nature of physics is interpreted by Plato as “likely story”, a type of “myth”
which gives place for mechanistic method, however it is never cannot be as the total qualifier of
experience. Due to this “myth” there are four elements: fire, earth, water, air; God mixed them
and creates the world in perfect proportion:” Thus it was that in the midst between fire and earth
God set water and air, and having bestowed upon them so far as possible a like ratio one towards
another-air being to water as fire to air, and water being to earth as air to water,- he joined
together and constructed a Heaven visible and tangible.” (Timaeus, 61) Plato divides the world
being into two groups: Forms and Copy. Forms are playing an important role in creation the
visible world, because of their function is to be a pattern for the God as he creates the world. It is
said in Timaeus:

“Again, if these premises be granted, it is wholly necessary that this Cosmos should be a Copy of
something.” and “…whereas the accounts of that which is copied after the likeness of that Model, and is
itself a likeness, will be analogous thereto and possess likelihood; for as Being is to Becoming, so is Truth
to Belief” ( Timaeus, 53)

From this quote it is clear that Plato considers the physical world only as a Copy, “likeness of
Model” or “Images” which Demiurge1 created based on existing pattern. Nevertheless, there can
be question by analyzing this idea if either the pattern could be also the copy, or the copy could
be the pattern of another world. It is worth noting that notions in Timaeus are as complex as that
researcher finds new and contradicting meanings by analyzing it. Contradictions of meanings can
be explained that Plato, again, stated physics is “likely story” or “myth”, so in the process of
creating myths imagination is very important. Creation of imagination always leaves ambiguous
meaning, it is not clear and direct fact. Consequently, that’s the reason; there is a same opinion in
“Science and Myth in the TIMAEUS” by Gavin:

1
God and Craftsman
 The structure of Timaeus 3

“It seems quite clear, then, that for Plato the very uncertainty of physics was a crucial point. Because
physics was seen by Plato as a "likely story," imagination was given an important position.”(Gavin, 1975)

“To call physics a myth in this sense is to take nothing away from it, but rather to prevent it from
becoming mechanical. Insofar as physics is mythical, imagination is important and thought experiments
can be given serious attention.” (Gavin, 1975)

“Here Plato uses myth to portray what cannot be "demonstrated" by reason alone.27 At the final level,
i.e., the Timaeus , the entire dialogue is to be taken as a myth-an attempt to account for experience which
includes reasoning but also transcends it.”(Gavin, 1975)

The reader can be confused and asked: “Why should physics precisely be myth?” Of course, the
main argument is based on “Form\Copy” conception, but it is not enough to get the point. It is
mentioned in the beginning of the paragraph that physics avoids being mechanical, thus it uses
more artistic concept of explanation. By the reason myth format of narrative is mostly fits for the
concept, Plato logically decided to use it:

“Myths for Plato were "performative utterances." They represent an angle of vision which includes
thinking, feeling, and doing.” (Gavin, 1975)

As a result, physics is describable as a myth:

“The best one can hope for is a shared or communal outlook on experience. Physics then, precisely
because it is a "myth within a myth," can never become a quest for certainty or a sheer mechanistic
outlook.” (Gavin, 1975)

“Plato escapes the danger of a metaphysical dogma- tism, just as the artistic form of the dialogue avoids
the fixity of the written word, and irony the danger of dogmatic seriousness. The achievement of the myth
is that it renders intelligible the mysterious aspects of life, and it does so not only by evoking a vague
sentiment.” (Gavin, 1975)

Therefore, so called “thought experiments” 2 by Gavin connected with statements based on

relation between physics and myth depend on imagination than clear scientific facts at all. Thus,
it can be mentioned his work is not absolutely observational and objective.

Secondly, does Plato mean through Timaeus that the world is eternal or not? Let’s
examine this question. It is written in Timaeus:

“… and it was made after the pattern of the Eternal Nature, to the end that it might be as like thereto as
possible; for whereas the pattern is existent through all eternity, the copy, on the other hand, is through all
time, continually having existed, existing, and being about to exist.”(Timaeus, 79)

According to the primary source pattern is eternal, then if it is so, the copy should be also eternal,
also because of it ‘has come into being’. Thus, another question rises: what does this phrase
mean? If so, it is explainable as following form: “(i) the universe is tangible and visible and
possesses body: it is thus sensible; (ii) all sensible things are in process of becoming and
generated (gignomena kai genneta); (iii) therefore, this cosmos has come into being {gegone,
28bc7-2)” (Carone,2004, p.213)

2
the astronomical view of the world as a multisphered universe, which is articulated in the first part of the
dialogue, and the view that matter is capable of explanation in terms of geometric elements, which is developed in
the latter half of the dia- logue
 The structure of Timaeus 4

Terms ‘becoming’, in other words ‘has come into being’ has unclear definition, likewise they
suggest to the infinity process of change without beginning and end:

“the word 'becoming' (genesis, gignesthai) is ambiguous, and can mean either (a) coming into existence at
some time; or (b) being in process of change. In the latter sense, 'it is true that in such becoming
something new is always appearing, something old passing away; but the process itself can be conceived
as going on perpetually, without beginning or end” (Carone,2004, p.214)

To think over this case, based on arguments mentioned above, world is always changing, then it
can be assumed if for example our Planet Earth disappears with all living creatures including
humans, however the world will last its existence, but in changed version. Living creatures’
world disappear obviously, nevertheless the world itself remain. Consequently, worlds can be
divided in several groups with one main world. That being said the theory from Carone’s article
“Creation in the Timaeus: The Middle Way” is very apprehensible for this thought:

“Once more, then, the use of the perfect tense (as opposed to the aorist) here at 38cl (gegoriõs) - as much
as at 28b7 (gegone) - plus the adverbial expression 'continuously for all time', seem to indicate that the
coming into being of the world did not occur 'once upon a time', but is a continuous process”
(Carone,2004, p.216)

There is another case deserving attention which is image of Time according to Timaeus. Time is
presented as an image of eternity working by numbers. Moreover, there are portions of Time
called days and nights, months and years, similarly as tenses “Was” and “Shall be”. They are all
representation or imitation of eternity being due to Timaeus. However, there could be assumption
which proves about second type of time: ‘precosmic time’. It is characterized as “an irreversible
temporal succes- sion of past and future which cannot be measured” (Carone, 2004, p.217) This
statement supports the assumption:

“And since we are told that time was generated together with the universe, it would follow that any kind
of time was generated together with the universe. In addition, Plato explicitly links past and future to the
measurability of time when he says at 38a7-8 that they are 'kinds of time ... which circles according to
number'. This suggests that simple duration is insufficient for time, which instead requires orderly se-
quence” (Carone, 2004, p.218)

To summarize, the Timaeus represents the evidences that creation itself is a continual process,
through which the universe can be seen as having come into being ‘for all time’.

Thirdly, Plato has variability of methods of demonstrating and explaining his ideas and in
my opinion he analyzes the case in different angle by the reason he wants to reach the absolute
objectivity. This assertion can be proved by the case that despite Timaeus being “likely story”
and “myth” may not conclude math or geometry, Plato adds astronomy, math and geometry
theories in Timaeus. Let’s just have a look to basic astronomy model of Timaeus:

“1. A world-soul is constructed from intermediate "existence," "same- ness," and "difference." (These
were the pervasive Platonic forms outlined in the Sophist.) The terminology used in constructing the
world- soul views it as analogous to a metal strip.

2. The metal strip is marked off into harmonic intervals.

 The structure of Timaeus 5

3. The strip is then split lengthwise into two parts, and these two then crossed to form an "x." The two
ends of each line are "bent around" to meet each other, thus forming a sphere, the perfect shape. The "x"
is tilted so that one line forms the horizontal, the other the eliptic

4. The outer line of the "x," the horizontal line, is called "the same" and revolves as axial rotation of a
sphere to the right. The other line of the "x," "the different," is itself divided into seven parts, and each of
the planets (wanderers) is placed on one of these circles.

5. Each of these planets not only has the motion of "the same" plus the motion of "the different," but also
has a different speed of accelera- tion. As Francis Cornford says in his commentary to the Timaeus: The
Moon accelerates the movement of the Different, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, as a group, move with the
actual speed of the Dif- ferent, completing their course in a year. The Sun alone has the actual motion of
the Different unmodified; Venus and Mercury modify it by intermittent retrogression .... Mars, Jupiter,
Saturn slow down the movement of the Different by an additional motion of counter revolution.

6. All planets, including the earth, have a self-motion, i.e., axial rota- tion. In the earth's case, its own
axial rotation counteracts the axial rotation of "the same." (Gavin, 1975, p.7-8)

This description shows the fact which is familiar to everyone literally that Earth moves around
the Sun, similarly like other planets in solar system. Plato names it as “an aesthetic model- the
earth seen as a ‘sphere within spheres’” (Gavin, 1975, p.7-8) The sphere is considered as perfect
symmetric form having harmonic intervals: (1, 4/3, 3/2, 2, 8/3, 3, 4, 9/2, 16/3, 6, 8, 9, 27/2, 18,
27)

The purpose of using scientific method3 was to gain from this model a pattern:

“What Plato has done then, is to idealize a set of observational phenomena to the stage where only their
geometrical properties remain, and then to construct a view of the universe from the geometric model.”
(Gavin, 1975, p.9)

Even these models are quite general, it is very good to have counter- idea like that in terms of
reaching objectivity.

To conclude, the research paper investigates the clear definition of Plato’s physics and
gets an answer as for physics is more apprehensible to be structured like a “myth” or “likely”
story”. Moreover, the work presents the general idea of Timaeus that is a “Form\Copy” Model
and makes it clear the God is like a craftsman creating the world (Copy) based on pattern
(Form). Afterwards, research examines the question if the world is eternal or not, of course
orientated on Timaeus. To get the solution the Time problems are mentioned, particularly it is
claimed that Time is the numerical measurement of eternity and also there is an analysis of
dividing Time into probable sections as ‘precosmic time’. Finally, like a counter-argument the
paper contains mostly astronomical, also mathematical and geometrical views on Timaeus. In
addition, as an extra case the paper could complement itself with comparisons between ideas
from Timaeus and main religious concepts.

3
Astronomy, Math and Geometry particularly
 The structure of Timaeus 6

References:

Plato, Timaeus, London, England: Harvard University Press

Annas, J. (2003). Plato, A very short Introduction, New York, NY: Oxford University Press Inc.

Carone, G. R. (2004). Creation in the "Timaeus": The Middle Way. Apeiron: A Journal for
Ancient Philosophy and Science, Vol. 37, No. 3 (September2004), pp. 211-226.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/40913974

Gavin, W. J. (1975). Science and Myth in the TIMAEUS. University of Arkansas Press. The
Southwestern Journal of Philosophy, Vol. 6, No. 2 (SUMMER, 1975), pp. 7-15.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/43155037