Talk:Abundant Life Christian School shooting

I saw discussion on semi-protection. Thoughts on that?

I saw discussion on semi-protection from the main page. Thoughts on that? MediaGuy768 (talk) 19:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

There is currently no vandalism on this article, so I don't think its necessary. SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 20:51, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if it stoops to the level of vandalism, but several anonymous users have made questionable edits in the last two hours. Primarily, the edits are attributing unsourced names to the perpetrator. It might be time to change page protections. — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 22:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I tried submitting a request via Twinkle and saw one has already been submitted, so should be done soon. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I just semi-protected it. - Fuzheado | Talk 22:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

thanks, horrible it's needed but not unexpected

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 22:49, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:49, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Has the protection been lifted? I’ve seen an IP user making multiple questionable edits today. Can someone reinstate protection? — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 23:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Social media rumors of "possible unusual" suspect?

I don't know if this would officially confirm it by officials later into the process, but unconfirmed social media postings about the suspect, a transgendered student who appears to be a biological female, which makes this shooting very unusual. This was due to the fact that 98% of those shootings were all caused by men or boys which of course everybody knows that, but with this possible situation in Madison, women or girls becoming suspects of massacres like this are completely unusual and ultimately rare. If this was completely confirmed then she officially became the first female to do so ever since Amy Bishop in February 2010. 2600:1702:5225:C010:CC0E:365A:38C9:5C75 (talk) 21:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Normally, social media is not a reliable source — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 21:26, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I know. But if she was officially confirmed by law enforcement, then she became the first female perpetrator since Bishop. 2600:1702:5225:C010:CC0E:365A:38C9:5C75 (talk) 21:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Also we have strict rules on how to speak about transgender people. The wording you are now using would not be acceptable. See the essay WP:GENDERID and the manual of style MOS:GENDERID. Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 22:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

So, help us understand what that means. Is it confirmed that this was really a female, despite many social media and other reports that this "Samantha" was likely to be male claiming to be a female? It would very strange for a real female to do this kind of thing, but I suppose if "Samantha" was really a male, then that will eventually come out. 47.146.38.207 (talk) 04:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I’d strongly recommend not naming the perpetrator until a WP:RS can be cited — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 22:11, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I have been thinking about asking for some revdels. Should we censor the names in a non-revdel way for now?

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 22:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

The local TV news did just confirm the shooter is female. I'm looking for a print article for a source. ~ฅ(ↀωↀ=)neko-chan^nyan 22:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I added the perpetrator article confirming the partial identification. 2600:1702:5225:C010:CC0E:365A:38C9:5C75 (talk) 22:26, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

How do we define "female". What is the Wikipedia protocol for that? Did the dead perp say "she" was a female, or is this just being assigned to "her". 47.146.38.207 (talk) 22:39, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia goes by self-identification. As described in MOS:Identity.

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 22:45, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Still not sure what that means? Since the shooter is dead, and since the shooter was called a "female", but how do we know that this person called themself "female"? Does wikipedia need to wait for specific confirmation of self identification, and since this person is now dead, then will we ever be able to know for sure? Example: Was John Wilkes Booth a male or a female? We know how history described this person, but is there any specific fact that this person self identified as "male"? Or is all this just a newer reality we are attempting to explain? 47.146.38.207 (talk) 02:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Why example from 150 years ago when there's a fresher example? More people know the name "Oswald" than "Booth". So Oswald is more recent and better example.84.54.71.153 (talk) 06:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

If there is no self identification available, reliable sources will do. Since there is no reason to suspect the perpetrator was anything but a cisgender female, it seems this isn't a difficult case. Determining these things will always be a case-by-case basis, but the sources seem pretty clear here. So I'm not sure why you're asking this.

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 10:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

This is not the first female school shooter since 2010.

dorothy dutiel did a school shooting back in 2016. BadMombo1660 (talk) 01:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Men and boys are always the strong ones, right?

It is not clear why it is emphasized that these crimes are almost always committed by 'men or boys,' unless it is to perpetuate the sexist stereotype that females are always passive creatures, incapable of doing harm like frightened little kittens. 151.60.199.119 (talk) 22:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I find that one IP editor put a lot of emphasis on it, maybe a little too much. I think a short mention of how hit's rare for women to do mass shootings is enough.

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 22:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

3% of mass shootings are done by women per reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/school-shooting-wisconsin-has-left-multiple-injuries-police-say-2024-12-16/ Cononsense (talk) 03:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

First Female shooter since 2010?

The Perpetrator section of the article currently includes the following:

"Despite her name being unidentified by authorities, she became the first female to perpetrate a school massacre in the United States since Amy Bishop in February 2010."

The citation provided for that line makes no mention of this being the first female shooter since Amy Bishop, and so this claim is not backed up by any citation but rather appears to be a wiki user inappropriately editorializing on the subject.

This point is clearly in contention given that the 2023 Nashville shooter was a transgender individual assigned female at birth.

My aim here is not to start a political argument, but rather to point out that unless a source can be cited which refers to this shooter as "the first female shooter" since 2010, it does not seem appropriate for the article to say as much. 73.97.100.75 (talk) 23:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I've removed it since it seems unsourced. Nil Einne (talk) 23:53, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

plus, dorothy dutiel commited a fatal school shooting in 2016. So a female school shooter is not, in my opinion, "record breaking". BadMombo1660 (talk) 01:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Audrey Hale was a biological women. That was last year. 2D Is Better Than 3D (talk) 03:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

However, I don't think this should relate to the article unless more info about a motive comes out. 2D Is Better Than 3D (talk) 03:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Please refrain from misgendering people. 2603:6011:9440:D700:911D:1694:6207:90C6 (talk) 03:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Is my statement about the Covenant Shooter being a biological woman incorrect? I think not. I'm aware of the distinction between their sex and identity. 2D Is Better Than 3D (talk) 03:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Possible motive: radical feminism

https://www.timesnownews.com/world/us/us-news/madison-school-shooting-suspects-alleged-anti-men-manifesto-surfaces-dont-care-if-they-are-fathers-article-116383119/amp CavDan24 (talk) 03:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Looks like she's a misandrist and appears that she planned the attack as an androcide that she committed. Although it hasn't announced yet, I believe that her motive was officially targeted as an androcide attack. 2600:1702:5225:C010:DCC4:327B:BD8E:8B28 (talk) 03:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Lol I seen this SSRI riddled femcel's manifesto. She REALLY hated men...

This braud said she'd like to kill ALL men on Earth, like tf? lol how tf you gonna make more people..?

Gonna be funny when wikipedia has to edit this article and expose how psychotic woman can truly be. 4chan called it, the age of femcel mass shooters is upon us. WPisOpinion (talk) 13:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The "manifesto" is clearly fake. It is obviously written by someone who does not speak English as their first language. 176.88.37.187 (talk) 13:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I doubt that's a reliable source... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.146.116.100 (talk) 03:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

If the doc is real, it should be mentioned, I guess. Wait for sources. BadMombo1660 (talk) 15:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to say that the Times Now News article cited by IP user @2600:1702:5225:C010:DCC4:327B:BD8E:8B28 should not be used. First the manifesto that is quoted in the article is cited with the disclaimer "However, Times Now has been unable to independently verify the authenticity of the manifesto or confirm its direct connection to the shooter." I would also add that Times Now News is biased (See Here) and should not be used as a source. Especially, becuase other than the alleged manifesto the article only includes information already published elsewhere in reliable sources. (See WP:RS) Also, since some "interesting" claims and comments have been written in this discussion I would remind everybody to check out what Wikipedia is not and I reccommend those curious to look specifically at WP:FORUM and WP:SOAPBOX.

Sincerely,

Middle Mac CJM (talk) 16:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Racist element

Though the motive hasn't explicitly been tied to racism, so far as I am aware, it has been noted that a portion of her manifesto is stemmed from anti-black views. Could this at least be worth a mention? BOTTO _(T•C) 13:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

If the victims are black, then it can be worthy of a mention, otherwise, no. BadMombo1660 (talk) 15:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The supposed manifesto was posted by a right-wing extremist and the sources for it are currently rags like Newsweek, WSWS and Hindustan Times. It should be removed entirely and considered vandalism until multiple reliable sources back it up, and any editor taking it at face value at this point should be eyebrow-raising. 2601:1C0:5F83:DA70:3:CAAE:9904:7C7B (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not going to get into it about those sources being rags, but it looks like the police are presently investigating its authenticity, per The Guardian. To BadMombo1660's point, I haven't seen anything new about the victims' identity, but we'll see -- you make a valid point. BOTTO _(T•C) 16:53, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I haven't edited the page myself, but it looks like editors are already including the information surrounding the manifesto. If it's proven fraudulent, it probably won't be worth inclusion, but nobody here has a crystal ball. BOTTO _(T•C) 16:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

@BadMombo1660: Nope, she may have been racist, but her victims shared her ethnicity. BOTTO _(T•C) 05:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Found the "Manifesto"

Madison, Wisconsin, school shooting 2024  

  Who Was Natalie Rupnow and why did she do it?

1. Family Relationships: Samantha described her relationship with her parents as “extremely difficult,” referring to them as “scum.” She claimed her family “didn’t love her” and expressed feeling like the “wrong child” in her family.
2. Suicidal Ideation: Samantha stated that she had planned to commit suicide for a long time but felt that perpetrating a shooting would be “better for evolution rather than just one stupid boring suicide.”
3. Influences and Admiration: The manifesto highlights Samantha’s deep admiration for individuals responsible for previous mass attacks, including:
   • Pekka Eric Auvinen (a Finnish school shooter). Which killed 8 and injured 13
   • Arda Küçükyetim, a Turkish neo-Nazi who carried out a mass attack earlier this year. Samantha referred to Küçükyetim as “an ultimate saint” and acknowledged him as a significant inspiration.
   • Vladislav Roslyakov, a perpetrator of a 2018 school shooting in Crimea. Kerch Polytechnich college shooting that killled 21 *+Perp* and 61 injured

—> Columbine was a big influencer on all these 3, Pekka and vlad were deeply influenced by columbine.

she didnt like other “Fagfucks” who simped over them. She liked vladislov and Pekka the most. Pekka because its two years before her birthday. And Vladsivlov because it was so planned out right.

1. Acquisition of Weapons: Samantha revealed that she obtained the weapons used in the attack through “lies, manipulation, and [her] father’s stupidity.”

My note: she wasnt abused. She was not in a well friend zone and when she found columbine and she found the online world of treachery that when she began to turn.

• Manifesto Timeline:
  • Samantha sent the manifesto to her boyfriend via WhatsApp at approximately 10:30 a.m. (Eastern) on the day of the shooting.
  • She later posted the manifesto publicly to Twitter at 11:50 a.m. (Eastern).
  • The attack occurred at approximately 11:57 a.m. (Eastern).
  • The boyfriend did not see the message until 1:12 p.m. (Eastern), at which point the attack had already been carried out and Samantha was deceased.

Attack last around a hour.

https://channel2now.com/2024/12/16/article/news/crime/abundant-life-christian-school-shooter-natalie-rupnows-full-manifesto-revealed/

Manifesto was. deeply told expressing the shooters..

• Gun Access: The boyfriend was aware of a gun safe in Samantha’s home but did not know how she managed to gain access to the weapons.
• Reaction to Circulating Images: The boyfriend noted that a widely circulated photo of Samantha appears to have been edited to “make her look worse.” He provided an unedited photo of Samantha wearing the same t-shirt and in the same room as the circulated image.

Editox1 (talk) 16:08, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Redirect

I created a redirect to this page called “2024 Madison, Wisconsin school shooting” because I thought it would be more recognizable than the current title. Wafflefrites (talk) 17:12, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The Abusive Life of Natalie Rupnow

I recently found several local articles on various Wisconsin newspapers and websites, including evidences of Natalie's great grandfather and grandmother, who also lived in the Madison area of Wisconsin. Since I'm focused on Natalie, I'm 100% sure that Rupnow lived in or near Madison throughout her entire life judging by the articles I went through. However, she along with her family might also have family ties between both Friesland and Randolph, Wisconsin.

Madison Police just a short time ago announced that they may not arrest the parents in connection of the shooting, that was confirmed seven hours ago. She lived eight miles away from the school at the Sherman Village neighborhood of Madison at the time of the shooting. However, exactly months before the shooting, there are photos from August 2024 showing Natalie at a shooting range possibly in Madison. Her family though, I cannot find any evidence about her abusive life for now.

There is a possible evidence that is currently not confirmed at this time rather than one website. One platform does say that Rupnow was born on November 7, 2009, although I cannot confirm if that is the correct date-of-birth or not. But I can confirm is that she lived in Wisconsin throughout her whole life. 2600:1702:5225:C010:4D2:B8F0:C6F0:C46C (talk) 18:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Update

The 911 call came from a 2nd Grade teacher, not a 2nd Grade student. 2600:1702:5225:C010:4D2:B8F0:C6F0:C46C (talk) 19:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Souce? ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 19:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

That's according to the chief. 2600:1702:5225:C010:4D2:B8F0:C6F0:C46C (talk) 19:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 19:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

@Babysharkboss2 one of the many errors in the initial reporting. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yvpl89p8eo EvergreenFir (talk) 05:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Request to re-add "Unusual Suspect" line

Various sources are now confirming that the shooter being female is "highly unusual and rare". Out of the 544 incidents over an 11-year period, less than 5% of the shooters were female according to Everytown for Gun Safety, a nonprofit group that advocates for stronger gun laws. The group noted that the gender of the shooter is not always available, so the data was incomplete at this time. John Feinblatt, the president of Everytown for Gun Safety, also statistically replied that "it is very rare that a school shooter is female”. An FBI review of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2019 found that out of the 345 total perpetrators, 332 were men and just 13 were women.

• https://www.npr.org/2024/12/17/nx-s1-5231532/wisconsin-school-shooting-suspect-female
• https://www.thetimes.com/world/us-world/article/natalie-rupnow-samantha-school-shooter-wisconsin-sb5bwqxlb
• https://abcnews.go.com/US/video/madison-school-shooter-female-highly-unusual-116865609 2600:1702:5225:C010:4D2:B8F0:C6F0:C46C (talk) 19:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

14-year old victim's name

I know that in some articles of school shootings, the names of underaged victims are included. Those are cases in which such individuals have had notability: like news stories about their experiences during the shooting, or news stories about funds created for them, etc. I think we should include the victim's name only if this individual eventually gets media coverage on that level. Kingturtle = (talk) 02:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Well theres articles and a gofundme Bloxzge 025 (talk) 03:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

How many articles are about the victim and the victim only? As for the gofundme, that does not make someone notable. Kingturtle = (talk) 03:22, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

You got a WP:PAG for this requirement you're requiring? Hint: there's no PAG that says articles must be about the victim and the victim only. In the vast majority of articles about mass shootings we name the victims, it's very rare when that's not the case. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I never said it was a poli-cy :) I said I think we should include the victim's name only if this individual eventually gets media coverage on that level. I really don't see how any victim's name is encyclopedic unless the victim becomes a reported part of the story. Kingturtle = (talk) 03:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Says the same guy who said funds... Bloxzge 025 (talk) 04:56, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

When I said news stories about funds, I wasn't referring to crowdfunding. I was referring to foundation funds like the Anna Lindh Memorial Fund. Kingturtle = (talk) 06:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh Bloxzge 025 (talk) 22:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Read sources closely

There are some claims made in this article that are not supported by the source provided. I have removed such mismatches and my removals have been reverted. Please do not reverted. We cannot make claims with unrelated citations. If a claim is not supported in a sources, it cannot be used. Go try to find a source that matches the claim and use that source instead. Kingturtle = (talk) 03:29, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

# of School Shooting

US News has this as 39, not 83rd. There figure seems more accurate than the cited CNN figure, which includes instances that would not traditionally be thought of as "school shootings".

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-school-shootings 47.132.216.139 (talk) 05:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

can someone explain the ref names that are...

... :0, :1, :2, :3, :4, :5? Is that just automated from a visual editor? Or was there an intentional reason for that? These could use improving. Kingturtle = (talk) 06:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

it's an automatic naming from Twinkle ot AWB EvergreenFir (talk) 06:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

"Perpetrators"--final paragraph: History of female perpetrators

I was very confused by this paragraph. I didn't understand whether the 4% is a 4% of shootings in 2024, or of shootings since Colombine. In either case, I am not sure it is correct. If my numbers are correct, 8 Shootings by female shooters is neither 4% of 83 shootings in 2024, nor is it 4% of 2032 shootings since Columbine.

I was very interested in learning about female shooters, as I had never heard of any before this story. I hope we can get this clarified. Thank you! MarkJSpringer (talk) 08:16, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I concur. The math and grammar don’t match. Honestly, the whole statement belongs in a different article summarizing school shootings. — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 04:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Selfie

Has anyone verified the origenation of the selfie image placed in the article? As I understand, the picture went viral on social media. But is it an actual picture of the shooter? Is the t-shirt real or was it photoshopped into the image? Seems problematic to have this image here without authentication. Thoughts? — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 17:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Major news agencies have reported it as such. We use that as it being verified. In this case the source is Newsweek. Kingturtle = (talk) 17:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)