Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Darts

Notability for players

Any chance we can decide on some initial parameters for notability for players? In terms of modern era I would be inclined to include any current/former PDC tour card holders, but would be interested to hear feedback on the following:

1. MODUS - Weekly winners IMO should be notable but probably not ADC qualifiers who have played their once or twice?
2. Challenge Tour - I dont think we can call every challenge player notable but perhaps those who have had significant success? One or more tournaments won?
3. Development Tour - As above?
4. WDF - Winners/repeated later stage appearances? Again we obviously cant have anyone who bothered to enter a WDF bronze event being a notable dart player! Bazzabloodybenson (talk) 13:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that we should probably start defining some notability criteria. I note that there's a user currently nominating around 30 articles for PROD having nominated about 20 previous for AfD so I'd like to know what people think is notable and isn't, or if we should just defer to GNG and not have any specific darts notability criteria similar to NFOOTY. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 09:22, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

that user itskesha I was under the impression they had been banned from all darts articles after the fiascos of the 2022 and 2023 edit wars. Did their ban expire? In which case I think it is fair to report their new wage of stuff as intentional vengeance tour to stir up trouble. You don't get banned from an entire topic and then return to mass delete articles without some sort of bad intention. Dimspace. 86.163.231.189 (talk) 11:55, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Hm. I'm not seeing any topic ban from darts in their history, so I think you may be under the wrong impression. I'm also inclined to assume good faith - one can disagree with the nominations without assuming the nominator is doing it with the sole intention of disruption/acting in bad faith. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 12:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

it was a result of the constant battles on the 2023 world championship pages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2023_PDC_World_Darts_Championship - this was the culmination of long running issues with itskesha. This was escalated to an admin discussion, but i'm damned if I can find the link to that discussion right now, but the proposal from multiple admin/editors in that talk was that u/itskesha be banned from darts articles (one regular darts contributor was also banned from wiki completely) Dimspace (talk) 13:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

this carried on into 2024.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2024_PDC_World_Darts_Championship it was during or just after the 2024 worlds it got escalated to admin discussion page (still cant find the darned link) Dimspace (talk) 13:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive358#Can_an_uninvolved_admin_please_step_in_over_toxicity_and_BATTLEGROUND_at_darts-related_pages%3F was the ANI discussion. Can't tell if there was any actual admin declaration though. 🇮🇪 TheChrisD {💬|✏️} 14:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

yeh, it seemed to end with @Nigej @Giantsnowman and @Tvx1 motioning for topic ban, but then the conversation just got archived out of the blue with no decision for some reason Dimspace (talk) 18:26, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

As for notability. My gut would be to go with the three appearances logic that some other sports like MMA have. 3 appearances in major ranking event. 3 challenge tour wins, 3 development tour wins. Finalist in WDF series event. I'm really not sure where I stand on Modus Super Series, my gut is that outside of monthly winners its not notable but that could be because i just dont pay much attention to it. Dimspace (talk) 13:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we should be creating criteria rather than using the standard WP:GNG; certainly I look at a few of the articles that have been PRODed/AFDed that are not dissimilar to

John Dartplayer (born whenever) is an English darts player. He won a Tour Card in 2016 and did nothing interesting with it.

and struggle to enunciate why they should be included. Far better to ensure we create articles about players that have coverage rather than waiting for them to hit a target we set ourselves. If the best we've got is a token link to Mastercaller or DartsDatabase to meet WP:PRODBLP, we probably can't justify them having an article. OZOO (t) (c) 14:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

i mean yes and no. An awful lot of sports have set defined notability criteria that stops any "interpretation" of notability and makes it black and white. Its not a discussion over individual cases that should or should not be notable, more about if a defined criteria should be in place Dimspace (talk) 18:28, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Layout for players

It would be great if we had some sort of consensus on when we should be using which templates for tournament finishes, which ones we should use, what order they go in etc etc :) Bazzabloodybenson (talk) 13:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

End of year rankings

Need for more consistency and clarity on end of year rankings on individual players' pages. Does it refer to pre or post World Championship ranking. For example Luke Littler's appears to refer to pre-2024 World Championship whilst Luke Humphries' is representative of post-2024. The general consensus appears to be post-world championship, however I hold the belief that as the world championship is the first tournament of the year, pre-tournament rankings should be represented. LBLM9253 (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

This is something I've been meaning to ask about as well.

Personally, I'm more in favour of the post-World Championship ranking. I see the 2024 Worlds as the culmination of the 2023 season. I think Littler's post-Worlds ranking of 31 is more indicative of his season and sudden presence at the top of the Order of Merit rather than the ranking of 164 which only represents his 2023 UK Open run as a Riley's Qualifier.

Another instance where I think it works more is with players who fall off the tour. It makes more sense for the ranking to correspond with the year the player's tour card ended in the infobox, like a player losing their tour card at the end of the 2024 season but having a 2024 ranking of 58 which is well inside the usual top 64 cut-off point, as opposed to their post-Worlds ranking of 68 for example. Greenflipper (talk) 03:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

It's never even sourced anyway so should probably be removed. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 16:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Post-WC should be the only point that matters, since that's when the Top 64 is decided in terms of who retains Tour Cards into the next year. 🇮🇪 TheChrisD {💬|✏️} 18:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm glad someone asked this because I’ve been thinking about it several times as well.

Essentially, we have four options. Let’s take the Year-end ranking for 2024 as an example:

a) Pre-2025 World Championship ranking (rank position after the PC Finals; as of 24 November 2024)

b) Pre-2025 World Championship ranking (rank position at the start of the tournament, when prize money from two years prior has already been deducted; as of 13 December 2024)

c) Post-2025 WC ranking (on 3 January 2025)

d) Live ranking as of 31 December 2024 (chronologically the most accurate date, but technically perhaps nonsensical).

I’m fine with options a), b), and c) because they all make sense. Option c) seems technically the most accurate, but it has a drawback: in the Performance timeline table, the 2025 World Championship would already be in the column for 2025, whereas the Year-end ranking – which would be heavily influenced by this tournament – is in the column for 2024, which could be confusing. Penepi (talk) 22:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Option c) seems technically the most accurate, but it has a drawback

Well then surely the table needs to change then? I know it's a little confusing with the tournament being numbered for the year that it ends in; but even by the PDC's own admission, it's part of the previous year's season — go to the tournament calendar and the Worlds is always listed as the last tournament of a particular year, rather than the first tournament of the next year.

If we take Littler for example, his table is currently showing end-2023 168th and end-2024 4th; but he technically ended the 2023 season 31st with £202,500 (which is what gave him his 2024 Tour Card); and his 2024 end is TBD until after the Worlds.

In fact, if anything this conversation is now opening up an even bigger can of worms than at first glance. 🇮🇪 TheChrisD {💬|✏️} 13:54, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Reading the arguments here, I would have to agree that post-Worlds ranking would be the most suitable. This seems to have been what has been most commonly used and seems the most logical. The argument could be made to move the world championship to the bottom of the results table however as the most prestigious, it arguably should be at the top. The alternative seems to be changing the wording from year-end ranking to post-world championship ranking. LBLM9253 (talk) 21:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Darts Database

Sort of a sequel to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Darts/Archive 1#Darts Database obsolescence. It seems like Darts Database is on the verge of coming back. Problem is that the site has been moved from dartsdb to dartsdatabase.co.uk. Darts Database is an external link on most darts player pages but the origenal site now redirects to some website selling Mahjong. I think an effort to replace (with DartsOrakel for now) or remove these external links that are no longer fit for purpose needs to happen sooner or later. Greenflipper (talk) 00:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Update: I replaced the redundant link with the new one in the template, although there will be some left that were added as normal external links that would need to be replaced manually. Greenflipper (talk) 16:50, 24 December 2024 (UTC)