Talk:Lake Toba

Lake Toba Sustainability

Right now we formed a forum about Lake Toba Sustainability. Our institution concerned about destruction in lake Toba. Most of us came from Bataknese and people who take attention seriously to Lake Toba Ecosystem. Indonesian goverment, especially North SUmatera province in march invite more than a houndred govenoor from all of the world. They plan to establish ne concept about Lake Toba in the future. But at the other side, the concept they have planed does not invite people in the ecosystem. we predict that mot of the masterplan does not conduct local sociocultural aspects. They just make Lake Toba as they want without hear public interest. we plan to make the similiar summit as the goverment planed to, but in different way. we plan to invite all local traditional leader to join a summit paralel with the goverment.

everybody who want joining our program will be invited.

sicerelly

tua hasiholan hutabarat

Relevant?

I'm sorry but is this relevant to the page? It seems more like a propaganda of some sort [Unsigned]

If by "this" you mean the first topic on this talk page: You'll notice they didn't attempt to insert it into the article, did they? Seems to me mentioning it in Talk is entirely appropriate! GeorgeTSLC (talk) 18:53, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Different, Lake Toba and Mount Toba

The past Mount Toba, with ancient history.

Present, Lake Toba with more other history, with Samosir Island on the center.

Isn't same article.

Toba catastrophe theory

The Toba catastrophe theory is linked to as the "main article" in the eruption section. The problem is that that article isn't really about the eruption but the theory of the eruption's impact on the development of man. As such, the article should be mentioned, but not as the main article with respect to that section. -Harmil 07:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and made the change.[1] -Harmil 07:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Specific claims of the Toba catastrophe theory, e.g. that the eruption triggered the last glaciation event or that it wiped-out out human populations world-wide, should be removed from this article about Lake Toba. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:32D4:6240:34BA:6958:223:457F (talk) 13:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Meaning

"toba" is Spanish for tuff. I suspect it is a coincidence, but what is the Indonesian meaning? --84.20.17.84 13:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Biggest for how long

Somebody has stated that this (Young Toba eruption) is the biggest in the last in the last 2 million years. I have looked for bigger eruptions futher back and so far no eruption has surpassed it since around 27 million years ago so doesn't that make it the biggest volcanic eruption in the last 25 million years? Wiki235 16:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

The 2 mya statement may have come from the Volcano World page cited in the following paragraph (which incidentally has a horribly misleading size graphic). I'd agree with your statement if we restrict it to explosive eruptions; the Columbia River Basalt Group which erupted from 17 to 6 million years ago is much larger, and there could have been individual eruptions within it that were larger than Toba. Toba is the largest explosive eruption listed by Mason, Pyle and Oppenheimer (2004 - citation below) since 27-28 million years ago. If no one objects, I'll change our article accordingly. -- Avenue 02:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Ben G. Mason (2004). "The size and frequency of the largest explosive eruptions on Earth". Bulletin of Volcanology. 66 (8): 735–748. doi:10.1007/s00445-004-0355-9. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

Well seeing as no explosive eruption since La Garita has surpassed Toba I'll put that in. Wiki235 13:05, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Somebody has put in that it was possibly the largest explosive vlcanic eruption withtin the history of the earth. This is incorrect. The eruption produced 2800 cubic km of material where as the La Garita eruption 27.5 million years ago produced 5000 cubic km which makes it larger. Please don't add claims that are not true.Wiki235 (talk) 20:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Why is one of the photographs in the article captioned 'Lake Toba from the island of Prapat?' The maps I see show Prapat being on the periphery of the lake, not an island. Deedeebee (talk) 20:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This article is now out-of-date. Its references to having caused a global cool down an being responsible for killing much of humanity has been proven wrong. Please go to this link for the reprot: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22355515 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.152.53.210 (talk) 16:13, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lake Toba/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

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This article is in decent shape, but it needs more work before it becomes a Good Article.

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   In the Geology section, "In 1949", it would be best if there was a comma placed after 1949.

   Done. --LordSunday 22:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   The lead seems a bit short, can more info. be added to summarize the entire article? The article tends to have "red links", if they don't have articles, it would be best to un-link them, per here. In The eruption section, it would be best if "caldera" is linked once, per here. In the More recent activity section, why is "1987" linked? Same section, "September 12th, 2007", "th" needs to be removed, per here.

   Done. --LordSunday 22:44, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   It would be best if the references use the {{cite web}} format. Also, Reference 3 needs to be fixed. Reference 6, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16 are missing Publisher info.

   Done, and ref 6 is empty for some reason. It appears the website has been renamed. --LordSunday 23:04, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   Is there a source for this ---> "In 1949 the Dutch geologist Rein van Bemmelen reported that Lake Toba was surrounded by a layer of ignimbrite rocks, and that it was a large volcanic caldera. Later researchers found rhyolite ash similar to that in the ignimbrite around Toba (now called Young Toba Tuff to distinguish it from layers deposited in previous explosions) in Malaysia and India, 3,000 km away. Oceanographers discovered Toba ash, with its characteristic chemical "fingerprint", on the floor of the eastern Indian Ocean and the Bay of Bengal"? Does Reference 11 cover all this ---> "The eruption lasted perhaps two weeks, but the ensuing "volcanic winter" resulted in a decrease in average global temperatures by 3 to 3.5 degrees Celsius for several years. Greenland ice cores record a pulse of starkly reduced levels of organic carbon sequestration. Very few plants or animals in southeast Asia would have survived, and it is possible that the eruption caused a planet-wide die-off. There is some evidence, based on mitochondrial DNA, that the human race may have passed through a genetic bottleneck within this timeframe, reducing genetic diversity below what would be expected from the age of the species. According to the Toba catastrophe theory proposed by Stanley H. Ambrose of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 1998, human populations may have been reduced to only a few tens of thousands of individuals by the Toba eruption"? Is there a source for this ---> "The volcanoes of Sumatra and Java are part of the Sunda Arc, a result of the northeasterly movement of the Indo-Australian Plate which is sliding under the eastward-moving Eurasian Plate. The subduction zone in this area is very active: the seabed near the west coast of Sumatra has had several major earthquakes since 1995, including the 9.3 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake and the 8.7 2005 Sumatra earthquake, the epicenters of which were around 300 km from Toba"?

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   If the following statements can be answered, I will pass the article. Good luck with improving this article!

--  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

After reading the article, I have gone off and passed the article. Congratulations. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you to LordSunday who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations. ;) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

surface area

It would be good to make it clear, in the infobox, whether the surface area includes or excludes Samosir, e.g. "area = 1,130 km² (excluding Pulau Samosir)". --Chriswaterguy talk 20:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

civilization?

"scientists believe might have wiped out much of civilization." As far as we know, there were no civilizations 75,000 years ago. I'm being WP:BOLD and changing it to "much of humanity"; if this is wrong for some reason or you have a better wording, please change it. Vultur (talk) 00:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Island of Prapat

I asked this a year ago but there's been no explanation or correction, so I will ask it again-Why is one of the photographs in the article captioned 'Lake Toba from the island of Prapat?' The maps I see show Prapat being on the periphery of the lake, not an island? Deedeebee (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC).

Parapat is not an island but a town along the lake. This probably came from a bad translation as the Indonesian Pulau can mean either Island or town/district. I don't know which photograph you are talking about, but don't hesitate to correct. --Madlozoz (talk) 09:22, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Date of eruption

I've changed the line in the lead paragraph from "it is the site of a supervolcanic eruption that occurred 75,000 years before the present" to "...that occurred 74,000 years before the present", as this is what the sources used in the article agree on Dom Kaos (talk) 22:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}} The coordinates need the following fixes:

• Write here

kanker 92.70.169.90 (talk) 12:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Done. BrainMarble (talk) 02:16, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

The size of the eruption in comparison to others

Look I'm sick of people changing this page, stating that this eruption was the largest of any kind anywhere in the last 25 million years. It wasn't. The Columbia River Basalt Group which began around 14 MYA and lasted up until 6 MYA were far, far larger than Lake Toba. If we restrict the statement to explosive eruptions then it's fine, but in it's present state it's not. I'll change it to explosive eruptions, if you want to change it back and have proof that this eruption exceeded the 174,300 km³ erupted by the Columbia River Basalt Group i.e. an article by a geologist which states this eruption exceeds VEI 8 and is infact the VEI 10 it would need to be to support the statement, then please provide the evidence. If you don't understand, either leave me a message or talk to one of the senior members of WikiProject Volcanoes. Thank you. Wiki235 (talk) 22:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

"Largely debated"

The two words in the lead, "largely debated", caught my eye. The article reads, "According to the Toba catastrophe theory to which some anthropologists and archeologists subscribe, it had global consequences, killing most humans then alive and creating a population bottleneck in Central Eastern Africa and India that affected the genetic inheritance of all humans today.[5] This theory however, has been largely debated as there is no evidence for any other animal decline or extinction, even in environmentally sensitive species.[6]" But what % of anthropologists and archeologists subscribe to this theory? It sounds like it could be a minority view. The source[2] for the last sentence concludes "We conclude that it is unlikely that the Toba super-eruption caused a human, animal or plant population bottleneck." I don't think "largely debated" tells us much about what mainstream scholars think. Jesanj (talk) 00:51, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps "largely contested" is an accurate description? Anyone know? Jesanj (talk) 00:55, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

It's still being discussed and is taken seriously by scientists, but with much more skepticism than before. First, humans have low genetic diversity, with an "effective population size" of 10,000 (compared with chimps at 20,000). That means our genetic diversity could theoretically be accounted for by 10,000 ancestors. However, that's just a theoretical minimum. The actual number could be higher by quite a few orders of magnitude. (Local Extinction and Recolonization, Species Effective Population Size, and Modern Human Origins) Next, a sediment core from Lake Malawi indicates that temperatures in East Africa only declined by about 1 degree C for about 1 year (they found confirmed Toba ash in the sediment), that Toba triggered a drought, but no disruption of the ecosystem. (Subdecadal phytolith and charcoal records from Lake Malawi, East Africa imply minimal effects on human evolution from the ∼74 ka Toba supereruption) In southern India, they've found stone tools above and below the 1-meter air-fall layer (i.e., ash that was undisturbed by wind or rain). Most of the tools below the layer are Lower Paleolithic while those above are Middle Paleolithic. At the time, anatomically modern humans, Neanderthals, and Denisovans were all using Middle Paleolithic tools, so some sort of Homo erectus probably became extinct. However, in some locations they found Middle Paleolithic tools both above and below, and in the same style, indicating somebody survived. They've also found evidence of mammals in the area not having been disrupted, as at the Billasurgam caves. (Discovery of Youngest Toba Tuff localities in the Sagileru Valley, south India, in association with Palaeolithic industries) Zyxwv99 (talk) 23:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Error in photo editing

The photo named Ambarita2.jpg has an error in editing. This image was created from a set of overlapping images and there is an error in the middle of the photo. There's a large section that is duplicated, as if the two images were pasted together in the wrong place. I did a tentative correction eliminating the redundant pixels that resulted in an image 4254 pixels wide vs. the 5208 pixels of the image as posted here. Vhilden (talk) 11:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Conversion error

This sentence contains a conversion error:

'It has been accepted that the eruption of Toba led to a volcanic winter with a worldwide decrease in temperature between 3 to 5 °C (5.4 to 9.0 °F), and up to 15 °C (27 °F) in higher latitudes.'

15 °C is 59 °F — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.215.153.86 (talk) 19:30, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

No it isn't, not as a temperature difference as seems to be the intent here... 110.23.118.21 (talk) 07:00, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Poor english language

"This study support by Lane and Zielinski. Lane and Zielinski studied the lake-core from Africa and GISP2. Lane had prove that no volcanic winter after Toba eruption, and Zielinski prove that high H2SO4 deposit does not cause long-term effect.[15][16]"

Can a native speaker correct this? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.130.153.43 (talk) 14:58, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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Average depth

Is average depth really 500 m? How was this calculated? With a maximum depth of 505 m this would indicate a prism/cylindrical shape more perfect than your average kitchen pot, fairly unlikely for a volcanic lake. Dividing volume 240 km³ by surface 1130 km² we get a much more realistic (for your average vaguely inverted-cone-shaped volcanic caldera) 210 m average depth. 93.142.85.96 (talk) 00:53, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

canceled sent

Depth

Per Sinking_of_MV_Sinar_Bangun#22_June, the lake apparently turned out to be much deeper than previously thought. So the max. depth of 505 m given here seems to be outdated. Gestumblindi (talk) 23:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

The intro should be corrected

Please, correct the intro. The country the lake is located in wasn't even specified in the first sentence. I have corrected it now, but it's still a mess. Should the first sentence talk about the calderra of a supervolcano? Can't the location be summarised at the beginning, and the geological nature be followed up on later?--Adûnâi (talk) 21:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Merge of The Origin of Lake Toba

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was merge. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 02:03, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

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I suggest that The Origin of Lake Toba does not seem sufficiently notable for a standalone article but if it can be better sourced would be a useful addition to the article on the Lake, so that stub should be merged into this article. PamD 16:12, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support - The article The Origin of Lake Toba is way too small to warrant its own article not to mention the article is also an orphan.– BrandonXLF (talk) 21:56, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support - as per nom. --John B123 (talk) 15:33, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support - as per nom. 2A00:23C6:3B82:8500:985F:63D8:818E:54CE (talk) 22:08, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.