Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brake check

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. While there is a clear majority for merging to Tailgating, this discussion has been going for over a month and those !votes don't take into account the recent updates to the article by GhostOfDanGurney nor the additional sources found by JPxG. If a merge is still deemed necessary a new discussion can be started on the article talk page. Aervanath (talk) 19:39, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Brake check

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Brake check (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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I don't think this passes the criteria in WP:Dictionary. Wikitionary even has an entry on this exact subject. While it was previously nominated due to notability concerns, this is about the fact that it is pretty much a dictionary definition. Plutonical (talk) 17:57, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Plutonical (talk) 17:57, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
• Comment: the previous AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brake test. SSSB (talk) 18:38, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
• Merge into Road rage. Doing research on it, it seems to largely be classified as a form of road rage and it seems to be the only form of road rage with its own article other than tailgating. That article is a bit more expansive and also this shouldn't be kept as a a standalone just because WP:OTHERTHINGSEXIST. If merged into Road rage it could probably be re-written a little bit more encyclopedically. snood1205^{(Say Hi! (talk))} 20:48, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
• Keep - This article is a stub, not a dictionary definition. For example, on WP:Dictionary see the section about definitions... both dictionary and encyclopaedic articles contain definitions! The definition given in the first sentence of this article is about the act not about the words. This article needs improvement, not deletion. As you say, notability is clearly demonstrated in the recent AFD. A7V2 (talk) 21:25, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
• Merge to Road rage. Not enough notability to be a standalone article. --𝕒𝕥𝕠𝕞𝕚𝕔𝕕𝕣𝕒𝕘𝕠𝕟𝟙𝟛𝟞 🗨️ 🖊️ 22:43, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
• Merge to Tailgating. Contents appear to fit better into tailgating as a brake check is directly retaliatory for the subject of that article. Doesn't appear that a brake check section would fit in very fluidly into Road rage. Topic is notable for inclusion but not for a standalone article. Bgv. (talk) 22:12, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
• Keep - This article needs to be expanded and improved upon, but I believe notability was established by the sources uncovered in the previous AFD. It's not a WP:BLP so I don't think it's too much of an issue for the article to be in this state. Merging would be viable if it were more obvious where to merge it to. The subject could be merged to road rage or tailgating if we were just looking at it in the context of road driving, but arguably this concept comes up most often in discussions of motor racing, where such concepts don't really apply. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 09:42, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 11:14, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:20, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

• Keep and expand -- Notable subject both in terms of general coverage and specifically in the context of Motorsports. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 14:49, 20 November 2021 (UTC) - Updated !vote below -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 17:48, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
• Merge to Tailgating. A brake check is surely a check of the brakes by a driver or garage, not the action described here, which is certainly not worthy of its own article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:33, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  Comment - At least two legal firms,[1][2] a car leasing firm,[3] and a respected journalist on the NASCAR beat,[4] agree that a break check is the driving maneuver (aka a brake test). I don't disagree that it can also refer to an inspection of a vehicle's braking system (what is also referred to in my neck of the woods as a brake job), but it does indeed refer to the action described in the article. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 17:14, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  Nevertheless, it is clearly not the primary meaning of the term and, in any case, still not worthy of its own article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:17, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

  If this article's contents were merged elsewhere it would presumably have to be made into a disambiguation page, as I noted above that the term comes up in quite distinct contexts. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 01:26, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: After deletion review, this discussion has been reopened.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ––FormalDude ^talk 02:09, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

• Merge to tailgating, which seems the relevant article (a non-ragey driver might pull this out of a sheer safety concern to see if the tailgater is paying attention). In the highly unlikely future scenario of there being an article specifically on brake diagnostics for how mechanics check & test a brake, then a short, two-item disambiguation page can be made instead. SnowFire (talk) 04:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Motorsport-related deletion discussions. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 05:26, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

  I don't think tailgating is the sole relevant destination. It should probably also appear in the glossary of motorsport terms at the very least. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 05:35, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

• Merge or delete It's purely about a term, and one that merely just needs a short definition, not an article. North8000 (talk) 15:55, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
• Updating keep rationale - The sources identified by TompaDompa in the last AfD held only 6 months previous, in addition to the Autoweek article noted above by myself and the source already in the article more than satisfy WP:GNG requirements for a standalone article. As a concept that is relevant in motorsports as proven by multiple sources including Autoweek, merging with either Tailgating or Road rage, which are not concepts in motorsports, is inappropriate and honestly, those !votes should be disregarded by the closer as they are a partial acknowledgement of already established notability. Being an article about a concept, it also easily passes WP:NOTDIC which is what the nominators rationale was solely concerned about. This is a situation where WP:SOFIXIT should have been taken into account instead of rushing into yet another AfD. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 17:48, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
• Merge to Tailgating, unless this article is substantially expanded with material outside the scope of tailgating. Ping me back to have a second look if such expansion is undertaken. Cheers! BD2412 T 19:45, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

  Comment - BD2412, I have begun some expansion. I've added two small sections which should hopefully further distinguish the subject from Tailgating, especially the motorsports section. It's a start, and I haven't begun to look at the additional sources introduced by JPxG. However, I am concerned that this !vote focuses too much on the article's current state and not its POTENTIAL. (Concern answered satisfactorily below) -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 05:16, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

  I appreciate the effort. I am wondering whether occurrences in motorsports are not still something that can be covered in tailgating. It doesn't seem to be a thing that can happen outside of that context. BD2412 T 05:37, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

  Tailgating isn't a concept that gets discussed in motor racing. The closest parallel would probably be drafting, but that still isn't really relevant or analogous. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 08:09, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

• Keep. Maybe this is a regional thing, but I've certainly used (and heard) this term before many times. I have found some references that talk about the practice in depth. jp×g 20:44, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
  • "Think you're innocent when you brake check a tailgater?". The Bellingham Herald. Bellingham, Washington. 2017-02-20. p. A2. Retrieved 2021-11-30 – via Newspapers.com.
  • "Is it OK to brake-check to discourage dangerous tailgating?". Wausau Daily Herald. Wausau, Wisconsin. 2017-07-22. p. A5. Retrieved 2021-11-30 – via Newspapers.com.
  • "Drivers are urged to back off". Austin American-Statesman. Austin, Texas. 1998-10-05. p. 11. Retrieved 2021-11-30 – via Newspapers.com.</ref>
  • "If you're slow, get out of the left lane". Green Bay Press-Gazette. Green Bay, Wisconsin. 2016-03-22. p. A3. Retrieved 2021-11-30 – via Newspapers.com.
  • "Put down your phone, and other resolutions to cut bad driver behavior, make roads safer". South Florida Sun Sentinel. Fort Lauderdale, Florida. 2016-12-31. p. F1. Retrieved 2021-11-30 – via Newspapers.com.
  • "Common sense seems uncommon". The Daily News-Journal. Murfreesboro, Tennessee. 2006-09-01. p. 9. Retrieved 2021-11-30 – via Newspapers.com.
  • "Steering you right: brake check". Press and Sun-Bulletin. Binghamton, New York. 2015-03-08. p. D15. Retrieved 2021-11-30 – via Newspapers.com.

If there is any support for it, I can put these in the article. jp×g 20:48, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

The Tailgating article isn't super-long. Some of these might be reasonable to use as sources in a possible section in the Tailgating article if some sort of "responses to tailgaters" section is made post-merge. SnowFire (talk) 22:11, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

• Merge to Tailgating per SnowFire. — Alalch Emis (talk) 19:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment - and per HumanBodyPiloter5, Tailgating is not a topic that comes up in motor racing. Per WP:MERGE Merging should be avoided if: 3) The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, with each meeting the General Notability Guidelines, even if short.; forcing a merger into this article is inappropriate. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 19:51, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.