Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Maryland/Archive 4

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Maryland Road Trip/Crawl

I'm planning a trip sometime in May to visit all of the major (sub-500) Maryland numbered routes, possibly in order. I'll be blogging about the trip and taking tons of pictures. While I was mostly just going to take "souvenir"-type photos, usually of the sign with people in it, I can also take pictures of the routes themselves and any significant landmarks along them. While we won't be driving the entire length of every road, I can adjust the plan if there's any sites in particular that could use photos. Additionally, if anyone has particular knowledge of local areas and wants to help plan some portions of the journey, I'd like to discuss this as well. Due to time limitations the trip will probably take place on the third and fourth weekends of May, and maybe the next weekend as well. Xerol (talk) 04:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great! The first bit of advice that I can give you for your trip is that due to some of the quirks in Maryland's system, visiting all of the routes in order wouldn't be easy, and would involve multiple trips back and forth across the Bay Bridge. One example would be the swapping of the designations 17 and 33. Routes 14 and 16 are on the Eastern Shore (there is no MD 15), while 17 is in Western Maryland, then 18 is back on the Eastern Shore. Likewise, while you are in the 30s in Western Maryland, you'll have to stop off in Talbot County to get 33. List of Maryland state highways should be useful to you as it gives all of the counties that each route passes through. Be sure to post a link to your blog here when you get it set up and good luck!-Jeff ^(talk) 12:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Have fun! When you have any photos to upload, I recommend putting them onto Commons. Here are some of the categories I have been putting all of my Maryland photos into: Category:Roads in Maryland. Cheers! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 12:42, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great. If I can get time off from work in May, I might be able to get some photos in Western Maryland. - Algorerhythms (talk) 14:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I spend pretty much every workday driving around MoCo and PG, so just let me know if there are any specific requests in either county. Also, I upload all the photos I take in the field to those aforementioned categories -- all geocoded. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 21:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I managed to get a few photos of MD 36, MD 55, and MD 638. I'd have more, but several pictures didn't turn out well. Such is the disadvantage of using a traditional camera rather than a digital camera. - Algorerhythms (talk) 01:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Any news on this? It looks like Xerol has been inactive. I hope we hear back soon; it's not every day that someone travels all over the state and allows us to use the pictures they take.-Jeff ^(talk) 17:54, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't do much editing but I do read pages just about daily so if you leave a message on my talk page I'll see it. I haven't had any luck getting free any of the recent weekends, but a Memorial Day weekend trip is possible. I also need to buy a new camera as my current one has some issues with pictures taken while in motion. Gas prices are also an issue, although with the trend I'd probably be better off taking the trip sooner than later. (I also find it humorous that a one-month absence means I'm inactive when my previous two were three and five months respectively.) Xerol (talk) 06:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to move Intercounty Connector to Maryland Route 200

According to a M.T.R post by Scott Kozel, he recently got word that at least one of the signs along the ICC work zone identifies the road as MD 200. Given that, it might be time to move the page. The discussion is at Talk:Intercounty Connector#It's official, MD 200 is now signed.-Jeff ^(talk) 17:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

So I got bored and wrote a script...

I wrote a Python script to make a sortable table for the list of Maryland state highways, similar to what is present on List of Oklahoma numbered highways. You can see the results User:Algorerhythms/MD Route Table. The script isn't perfect, so some information is missing from the table (especially for minor routes). I'm not sure if this will be of any use, though. - Algorerhythms (talk) 04:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks good. Even after I used a BeanShell script to generate WP:MDRD/L, I didn't think of using one to create a table like that. Maybe after more of it gets filled in, we can use it to replace List of Maryland state highways, which will give it a good shot at becoming an FL.-Jeff ^(talk) 15:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I noticed a mistake in the table... the script placed the termini in the table backwards (i.e. the western/southern terminus in the column for eastern/northern terminus, and vice versa), while I've been filling them in in the correct order. I think what I'm going to do with it if I get the time is modify the script to use the table itself as input data, and use the script to straighten the columns out. This would also help in adding or subtracting columns later on, as data would not need to be reinput. - Algorerhythms (talk) 00:19, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The columns are now shown in the right order, and most of the data is filled in, though a few lengths are still missing. - Algorerhythms (talk) 04:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The table turns out to be rather large - about 160kB. Also, it might be useful to split the table into multiple parts. This should make it easier to maintain, though it does lose the advantage of being able to sort through all of the routes at once. I put a split version (in sections of 100) at User:Algorerhythms/MD Route Table split. - Algorerhythms (talk) 00:34, 10 May 2008 (UTC) The remaining data is now filled in, so if there are no objections, I'll put it (the non-split version) on the List of Maryland state highways page. - Algorerhythms (talk) 22:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

north Dakota and Minnesota

Those two places is still place when state-name shields on interstate is still common. Though interstate-guide shade them black interstate-wise is still using both types of shields. They I think they can have same thing we have using specific state name only in article body;avoid it from infobox.--Freewayguy (talk) 20:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

What do North Dakota and Minnesota have to do with Maryland? - Algorerhythms (talk) 21:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, but I suggest you take it up with those projects or USRD if either of them doesn't have a project.-Jeff ^(talk) 01:32, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Interstate-Guide map shade in black; but it is not on a rarity list. It cannot be use in routebox, but same as MD; I say its okay to use it in route summary. Minnesota technically use both types of shields like Maryland, and the state-name specific shields appears onMinnesota commonly on I-35 and I-90 though now they use neutral shields. I agreed to follow same pattern as WP:MDRD interstate issues.--Freewayguy ^{Discussions Show all changes} 04:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Image:I-68 (MD).svg

I was the one who put instant pink tag on the MD state-name interstate shield and I agree about undeleting it. Go to Commons and ask for undeeltion to get that image back, thats my fault, sorry.--Freewayguy (talk) 00:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

New shields

I've been planning to do these for a while, and they're finally done:

• - JFK Highway
• - Airport Loop

I even made a B-W Parkway sign:

Even though the B-W Parkway sign isn't an actual shield, I felt we could use it in place of one for the federal portion (which isn't signed as MD 295).

I still plan on doing the ones for the Key Bridge and Capital Beltway. The problem is that unlike the ones I just did, those aren't simple so they may be copyrighted. If anyone knows what their copyright status is, that'd be great. Even if they are copyrighted, we could still use a PNG version with limited use.-Jeff ^(talk) 03:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

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GIS data

It's a little late in the game considering I've already gone through the pain of making Maryland state highway maps using TIGER GIS data, but I've found a GIS data set that contains all of the state highways in Maryland: http://www.marylandgis.net/SHAdata/list.asp - Algorerhythms (talk) 05:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

A push for junction lists

Recently I've added or updated the junction lists in the following articles:

• Interstate 70 in Maryland
• Interstate 95 in Maryland
• Maryland Route 33
• Maryland Route 122
• Maryland Route 198
• Maryland Route 216

I feel that, given the relative lack of junction lists in the unscientific sampling of other state highway articles in the project, that some type of listing should be started to keep track of articles that need junction lists created or updated (i.e. lowest numbered state highway article without a junction list, lowest numbered state highway article with a broken/incomplete/backwards junction list, etc).

I also just noted that the junction list I created for Maryland Route 33 has already been 'cleaned up', which I find somewhat unspecific - IMO this reinforces the need to discuss junction list standards and methods, to avoid edit wars and 'toys out the pram' scenarios.

Thoughts? -User:TheOneKEA (20080727 22:31) —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:32, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Naming Conventions

I'm not on this WikiProject, but I am on WP:USRD and individual state projects such as WP:MASH. I happened to notice that Maryland Route 927 redirects to Randolph Road. This doesn't seem to follow from the relevant manual of style. I haven't done anything, as there's probably a good reason for this. I have not been living in the DC area long enough to know if that is the more common name of the route. --Tckma (talk) 18:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Just like most road projects, MDRD favors the numbered designation over any name (our naming guide states that state highway articles should be titled "Maryland Route X"). I can see an exception to this being if multiple non-notable numbered routes make up a longer named route, then those numbered routes should probably be merged under the name of the overall route. I think that might be the case here but I'm not sure.-Jeff ^(talk) 01:24, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, the truth is a bit more complex, it's explained on Talk:Randolph Road.-Jeff ^(talk) 01:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Naming of list

Something that has been bugging me since the List of numbered highways in Maryland became a featured list is the naming of the page, since it now contains only Interstates and U.S. highways, and apparently a couple other states have followed suit in naming their lists of Interstate and U.S. highways as "List of numbered highways in X". Are there any objections to moving the list to something like "List of Interstate and U.S. highways in Maryland" to more accurately represent what is contained in the list? - Algorerhythms (talk) 00:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

There is a state highways section that links to the state highways list so if someone went to the numbered highways list looking for state highways they will be directed there. I wouldn't object to renaming it, only if that section is removed since it will become unnecessary.-Jeff ^(talk) 14:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

It's already been removed, actually, since at FLC they requested it be removed. - Algorerhythms (talk) 14:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Maryland)

User:Hag2 has pointed out to me at my talk page that the names I chose for the split articles from U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Maryland) are not clear, as Washington and Frederick Counties, which are often considered to be part of Western Maryland, are in this naming pattern called "Central Maryland." If there are any suggestions for a clearer naming scheme for these routes, they would be useful. Thanks. - Algorerhythms (talk) 16:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I would prefer to see them listed as "Western 1" and "Western 2" as in the Maryland Department of Transportations "Interactive Mapping" dropdown box for consistency as seen here. I believe also that your suggestion: "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Garrett/Allegany)" and "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Washington/Frederick)" is good, provided that you amend instead (Washington/Frederick) to read: (Washington Co./Frederick) Hag2 (talk) 17:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Another possible option is to name them after the towns where they end. That would result in "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Hagerstown-Frederick)" and "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Keyser's Ridge-Cumberland). The only concern there, though, would be that Keyser's Ridge is not an incorporated settlement. - Algorerhythms (talk) 22:49, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I am curious: Why make it so difficult and complex? Simplicity should be the key. The Wiki page title will be easily explained in the opening paragraph. Thus something like "US 40 Alt (Western 1)", and "US 40 Alt (Western 2)" should be clear enough as soon as a reader reads the first two sentences of the article -- although the MDOT website does use an interesting nom de plum when it cites The Frederick Tour (i.e. the I-70/I-270 interchange). So something like The Appalachian Trail Tour and The Keyser's Ridge Tour might be a nifty and cryptic way of saying all the above. *smile* (I hope you're laughing.) Hag2 (talk) 01:31, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Considering bannered routes are usually named based on the towns they pass through (such as U.S. Route 50 Business (Salisbury, Maryland)), the town option seems to be the best choice. As for excluding a place simply because it isn't incorporated, Towson is unincorporated but if there were a business route of I-83 that ran through it, I wouldn't hesitate to call the article "Intestate 83 Business (Towson, Maryland)"-Jeff ^(talk) 01:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

One difference, though, is that Towson, while unincorporated, is a city of 50,000 people, while Keyser's Ridge - basically nothing but a truck stop - has very few residents, if any. I still think it will work, though, as the name is recognized as the name for that location, at the very least by the USGS. - Algorerhythms (talk) 05:48, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

What if we rename the articles to the "(Hagerstown-Frederick)" / "(Keyser's Ridge-Cumberland)" pattern, and provide redirects from "(Western 1)" and "(Western 2)"? That way, it will be clear to the reader from the title alone which road that he or she is reading about, while at the same time, anyone who follows MDOT's naming in this situation will be able to find the right page. - Algorerhythms (talk) 15:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

That sounds interesting. But could you explain it in greater detail? I can not envison precisely what you have explained. Hag2 (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

The article currently at "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (western Maryland)" would be moved to "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Keyser's Ridge-Cumberland)", and the article currently at "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (central Maryland)" would be moved to "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Hagerstown-Frederick)". At the same time, a redirect would be placed at "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Western 1)" which would point to the Keyser's Ridge-Cumberland article, and another redirect at "U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Western 2)" would point to the Hagerstown-Frederick article. That way, if someone goes to the article under that name, they will end up at the correct article. - Algorerhythms (talk) 17:01, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I understand now. I was not aware that there was a main article U.S. Route 40, and that these Alternate Routes were subpages of the 1.10 subsection. Now that I uderstand, I believe your effort to adjust for these minor nuances is a stellar effort. I applaud you, and will leave the aforementioned subject of naming and renaming in your good hands. Hag2 (talk) 21:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Alt US 40

See Talk:U.S. Route 40 Alternate (Keyser's Ridge – Cumberland, Maryland)#Notability discussion. --Polaron | Talk 16:28, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

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SHA Maps

A contact at the Maryland State Highway Administration just sent me 21 official SRC/SHA maps from the following years:

1910 1933 1935 1936 1938 1939 1940 1946-47 1948 1949 1950 1951 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1959 1960 1970 1979-80

I would like to share these maps so all of us can use these resources to flesh out the history of the Maryland highway system. All maps are in PDF format; most of the files are between 10 and 20 MB. My contact assured me that they are in the public domain. My question is how exactly I should handle this. Should I upload these maps to Wikimedia Commons? The procedure seems intuitive, but I want to check with you all before I screw something up.

Viridiscalculus (talk) 22:54, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that would be the best place to put them. Also, be sure to put them in commons:category:Maps of roads in Maryland so we can find them easily. And thanks!-Jeff ^(talk) 03:46, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

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Some changes to the editing guide

Per a recent discussion at WT:USRD, it was decided to remove the major cities boxes from articles because of subjectivity and lack of sources. Per the revised section at WP:USRD/STDS, it is also stated that "similar lists should not be used in articles". This clause would therefore deprecate the Cities and towns section called for at WP:MDRD/EG. As a result, the editing guide should be revised to state that this section has been deprecated and should no longer be used in articles. In addition, I am proposing that the Counties traversed be deprecated as the counties are already mentioned in the prose. In addition, out editing guide calls for north-south routes to be described in that manner contrary to their south-to-north mileposts. WP:USRD/STDS states that "Regardless of the route's length, progression should be described from south to north, west to east." Therefore, I feel our editing guide needs to be changed to conform. Dough4872 (talk) 18:23, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Maps Uploaded, SRC Reports, Acme Mapper

This is a follow-up to #16: SHA Maps. I finally uploaded all of the maps (except for 1910) to Wikimedia Commons. They are found at commons:category:Road maps of Maryland. I encourage you to download them (they are PDF files) and use them to gather more specific dates for particular changes in the highway system compared to the maps available on the SHA Centennial website. Also, it may be helpful to make graphics out of captures to illustrate changes in a particular route. If you happen to possess or acquire other maps, please upload them. On top of my wish list is a higher resolution version of the 1927 map than is on the SHA website. If you notice some or all of the maps have been taken down from Commons, please note that here.

In the course of my studies, I also found old State Roads Commission reports that are helpful for getting specific dates on when certain projects were completed or in a certain stage of planning. If you read through them, you also gain a greater appreciation for the state of roads in the particular years you are reading about. Here is the link to those reports on the archive.org website: [[1]]

Finally, another resource to use, since the map history is sparse beyond 1960, are topographic maps from Terraserver-USA. I recommend using Acme Mapper to access them, as they offer a google maps-type interface. These topographic maps are usually dated sometime in the 1970s. It was these maps that allowed me to rewrite the Maryland Route 216 article several months ago. Hopefully with all of these resources, we can make the Maryland route pages even more accurate. Viridiscalculus (talk) 04:03, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

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