Talk:List of Muslim Nobel laureates

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

No consensus, 19 May 2022, see discussion.
delete all, July 17 2004, see discussion.

How did this talk page change. Who deleted the previous content. Was it deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skashifakram (talk • contribs) 02:17, 12 October 2015

Tunisian National Dialogue Quartet

While I appreciate why the Tunisian National Dialogue Quartet was added to this list, I don't believe it's appropriate to add them. I is very difficult to say that an organisation itself has a religion. I note that the 1947 Peace prize was given to a pair of organisation with overtly Quaker connections - Friends Service Council and the American Friends Service Committee, and for that reason they are included in the List of Christian Nobel laureates page. I'm not hugely comfortable with that, but at least the religion is a key part of those organisation's purpose. In the case of these four Tunisian organisations, even if ALL of their members are active and devout muslims, none of the organisations have Islam as a key component of their raison d'etre (unless I'm mistaken). They are a Trade union, an Employers association, a Human Rights organisation, and a Lawyers association. Furthermore, the Quartet is not, in itself an organisation, it is the collection of these four separate organisations working together. As such, the Quartet has even less claim to 'having' a religion. Witty lama 13:46, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I left this for a few days and, since there's been no response either way I went ahead and removed it myself (diff). Witty lama 10:19, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SYN

User:AmYisroelChai your edits:

here 14:43, 3 October 2017‎
here 14:24, 16 October 2017
here 16:45, 16 October 2017
here 17:51, 16 October 2017

All violate the WP:SYN policy. If you don't understand why, please ask. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 02:10, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

why do the violate that policy if all the nobel prize lists by religion have the same sentence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AmYisroelChai (talk • contribs) 14:37, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what you are talking about and I don't care. Your edits here - yours -- violate WP:SYN -- which is policy, and you are edit warring which is also a policy violation.

The correct thing for you to do here is read WP:SYN and think about why multiple editors have told you that your edits violate that policy. If, after you have done that, you still don't understand, please ask about that. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 14:56, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

thats what im doing im asking in what way does it violate the policy doesn't it go under Routine calculations do not count as original research, provided there is consensus among editors that the result of the calculation is obvious, correct, and a meaningful reflection of the sources. Basic arithmetic, such as adding numbers, converting units, or calculating a person's age are some examples of routine calculations. as the page itself gives both numbers — Preceding unsigned comment added by AmYisroelChai (talk • contribs) 16:18, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please thread your posts. See WP:THREAD.

You are not dealing with SYN. Above you wrote "meaningful" and that is exactly the problem. To generate that "meaning" you need a source that connects the dots. It is not OK for you (or me) as editors here to do that. Jytdog (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I dont get why its anything as this Wikipedia page itself has both numbers with sources I'm just putting a line in with the number mentioned later a bit earlier

"been awarded to 892 individuals,[1] of whom 12 or 1.4% have been Muslim." here's the percentage of prizes won by Muslims

"Muslims make up over 23% of the world's population.[5][6][7] " here's the Muslim percentage of world population

what is the problem with putting in this line a paragraph earlier to make it match the Jewish and Christian pages ?AmYisroelChai (talk) 16:53, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have already responded to all of this. Jytdog (talk) 17:24, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here is your disputed passage, with the problematic part in bold;

Nobel Prizes have been awarded to 893 individuals, of whom 12 or 1.34% have been Muslim although Muslims make up 23.2% of the worlds population.

You're using facts to create your own narrative to suggest that there is something negative, problematic, perhaps Western-centric regarding the number of Muslims who have been awarded a Nobel prize in relation to their world demographics. This is the essence of WP:SYNTH, using a verifiable citation to advance an opinion not found in the citation. ValarianB (talk) 17:51, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Insane pie diagram

This circle diagram is really weird. 2/12 rounded to 20%. The pie graph percentages add up to 110%. What is even the point of the graph? There is no similar graph on the corresponding women article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.224.60.158 (talk) 17:32, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What makes this topic notable?

I don't understand the point of these articles listing Nobel laureates by religion, ethnicity, race, or whatever. Have there been reliable sources covering these topics in depth? There is no indication of that in this article. There are sources that mention whether a winner is Muslim, but I don't see any discussion about the topic of "Muslim Nobel laureates".

We may as well have articles about Nobel laureates who are left-handed, LGBT, red-haired, bald, or possessing type AB blood. What's the point? ~Anachronist (talk) 00:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am sure that in time we will have all of those if we do not care for WP policies on notability.--ReyHahn (talk) 20:12, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. This article deserves speedy deletion. Many of sources stated in this article are obsolete and vague. Hu741f4 (talk) 05:45, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

recent vandalism by IP user

I have reverted recent vandalism by an ip user leading to edit warring. This Article mentions Nobel Laureates who have Muslim heritage or background. Nowhere it is mentioned in the article that the laureates need to be practicing Muslims. Link to the edit I reverted: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1178671164 Hu741f4 (talk) 05:22, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The page on Christian Nobel laureates only includes those who directly practice or at the very least nominally identify as being Christian. There is no proof that Bawendi is a Muslim or practices Islam secondly the source given to prove that he is of Muslim heritage provides no proof to substantiate it apart from a link to his Nobel Prize page, so until there are stronger sources to indicate Bawendi is a Muslim, weak sources cannot be used to perpetuate vandalism by serial vandals. 2601:404:D600:A862:9CC8:EC36:AD3B:C7B4 (talk) 16:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The source cited clearly mentions that He has Muslim heritage. Furthermore his Father was a muslim. This also proves his muslim heritage. Please don't repeatedly revert before discussing it here until we reach a consensus Hu741f4 (talk) 17:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are repeating the same thing with no proof. Where is the evidence that his father is a muslim, none has been provided. The article in question is an unresearched opinion piece that provides no proof to suggest that Bawendi has muslim heritage moreover muslim nobel laureates only includes practicing muslims or at the very least nominal muslims just like christian nobel laureates only includes practicing or nominal christians. This is an attempt at repeated vandalism and pushing inaccurate data and this user seems to be doing that repeatedly 2601:404:D600:A862:CD08:CC66:D77D:9F9F (talk) 18:43, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You have recently violated the 3 revert warning:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1178763465

It is clearly stated in the cited sources that Moungi Bawendi has Muslim heritage. I am quoting the exact passage :

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry being awarded to Moungi Bawendi (of Tunisian Muslim heritage), brings to 4 the number of Muslim origin science Nobel laureates.

Source 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/saleemali/2023/10/01/nobel-prizes-science-and-islam/

Source 2:https://theobserverpost.com/muslim-scientist-dr-moungi-gabriel-bawendi-awarded-nobel-prize-in-chemistry-for-quantum-dot-breakthrough/

https://theobserverpost.com/muslim-scientist-dr-moungi-gabriel-bawendi-awarded-nobel-prize-in-chemistry-for-quantum-dot-breakthrough/

You calim that "moreover muslim nobel laureates only includes practicing muslims or at the very least nominal muslim" has no base.

The fact that his father Mohammed Salah Baouendi was a muslim is another proof for his muslim heritage. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=4NVECgAAQBAJ&pg=PA219&dq=%22Salah+Baouendi%22+%22islam&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi63uWz0N-BAxXMSWwGHfcyCaIQ6AF6BAgIEAM#v=onepage&q=islam%20baouendi&f=false Hu741f4 (talk) 19:24, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I know people of Muslim heritage who are not Muslims themselves. I also know Jewish people who are atheist. Unless you have a source that unambiguously states that he is a Muslim, or quotes him saying so, you are just engaging in WP:SYNTHESIS, which is not permitted on Wikipedia. ~Anachronist (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nowhere it is written that the Muslim laureates should be practicing muslims.

The sources that unambiguously states his Muslim heritage are

1:https://theobserverpost.com/muslim-scientist-dr-moungi-gabriel-bawendi-awarded-nobel-prize-in-chemistry-for-quantum-dot-breakthrough/

2:https://www.forbes.com/sites/saleemali/2023/10/01/nobel-prizes-science-and-islam/

Hu741f4 (talk) 19:38, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your second source, https://www.forbes.com/sites/saleemali/2023/10/01/nobel-prizes-science-and-islam/, is written by a Forbes contributor rather than Forbes staff, and is an unreliable source. See WP:FORBESCON. – dudhhr^talk_contribs^she_her 19:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And what about the first and the fact that his Father was a muslim (see the third source) Hu741f4 (talk) 19:55, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's irrelevant. This article is a list of Muslim Nobel Laureates. It isn't a list of Nobel Laureates who have Muslim fathers. Unless you find a source saying that he considers himself Muslim (practicing or not), then you're engaging in synthesis. He may well be a Muslim, and I would agree it's likely, but we have no source saying it. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:25, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If this is the case then Aziz Sancar should also be removed. I wanted to know if there is any possibility to nominate this entire article for deletion? Hu741f4 (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hu741f4: I'm all in favor of deleting this article. See the section I started above this one. That's also why I added a notability tag to this article. This isn't a topic that complies with WP:NLIST. The last AFD failed (closed as no consensus) likely because it nominated a bunch of articles together in a group. Nominating one at a time might be better. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:41, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why should Aziz Sancar be removed from the list? Per his article, "Sancar is a practising Muslim.^[1]^[2]^[3]" – dudhhr^talk_contribs^she_her 21:06, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no evidence till now to suggest the Bawendi is Muslim so its best to leave him outside till there is conclusive evidence. Physicsexplaained (talk) 21:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The first source that was quoted by Hu741f4 seems to be a Muslim propaganda publication that absolutely provides no evidence of Bawendi being Muslim or anything like that. It is not an accredited publication and cannot be used as a source for anything Physicsexplaained (talk) 21:27, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

another source https://www.muslimnetwork.tv/muslim-scientist-wins-2023-nobel-prize-in-chemistry-for-innovation-of-quantum-dots/ Hu741f4 (talk) 17:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Again these are not accredited sources but muslim propaganda websites. These pages dont have any evidence to suggest that bawendi is muslim Physicsexplaained (talk) 18:05, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Physicsexplaained has been indefinitely blocked as a sockpuppet by Ponyo. – dudhhr^talk_contribs^she_her 18:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Aziz Sancar'dan dini tartışmalara tepki". Yeni Çağ Gazetesi (in Turkish). 2017-06-16. Retrieved 2021-12-06.
^ "Aziz Sancar: 'Evrim gerçektir, inanç meselesi değildir'". CNN Türk (in Turkish). 11 December 2018. Retrieved 2021-12-06.
^ "Aziz Sancar: Müslümanım ve Allah'a inanıyorum". Haber3 (in Turkish). 2017-06-29. Archived from the original on 2021-12-06. Retrieved 2021-12-06.

Miscounted

The "Peace" section says "Nine Muslims have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." but the list below only lists eight people. Horstder2te (talk) 11:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daron Acemoglu

Can someone check whether Daron Acemoglu is Muslim or not? Its unclear since he has both Turkish and Armenian background and Turkish people often *tend* to be Muslim. However, I could not find any reliable source. GucciNuzayer (talk) 06:59, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Acemoglu belongs to the Armenian community in Istanbul. Generally, the Armenian community in Istanbul is Christian, and they hold Turkish citizenship, just like other Christian communities (such as Assyrian, Greek or Antiochian Arab) or Jewish communities. Holding Turkish citizenship does not automatically mean that a person is Muslim. He doesn't seem to be Muslim to me; according to sources, he studied in Armenian schools. As I mentioned earlier, the Armenian community in Istanbul is predominantly Christian, and they send their children to Armenian schools (Armenian, Greek, and Jewish schools are the only ethnic schools allowed in Turkey, and they only accept children from these communities). Therefore, he is not Muslim. Durziil89 (talk) 07:57, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Aziz Sancar'dan dini tartışmalara tepki". Yeni Çağ Gazetesi (in Turkish). 2017-06-16. Retrieved 2021-12-06.

[2] "Aziz Sancar: 'Evrim gerçektir, inanç meselesi değildir'". CNN Türk (in Turkish). 11 December 2018. Retrieved 2021-12-06.

[3] "Aziz Sancar: Müslümanım ve Allah'a inanıyorum". Haber3 (in Turkish). 2017-06-29. Archived from the original on 2021-12-06. Retrieved 2021-12-06.

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