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October 16

One beating heart

In the R. H. Benson short story 'The Watcher' we read "... I heard pealing out above all other sounds the long liquid song of a thrush somewhere above me. I looked up idly and tried to see the bird, and after a moment or two caught sight of him as the leaves of the beech parted in the breeze, his head lifted and his whole body vibrating with the joy of life and music. As some one has said, his body was one beating heart." Who was it who said "his body was one beating heart"? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 00:05, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps no-one before Benson. Vaguely describing a phrase in one's own prose as a quotation from some unidentified other's work is, I think, not unknown in literature. P. G. Wodehouse (for one) used to do a similar thing by having his "silly ass" characters mangle and misattribute quotes. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 03:59, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it's mangled, then who's being mangled? DuncanHill (talk) 10:48, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I said "a similar thing", not "the identical thing". I was not suggesting that this particular Benson passage is a mangled quote (though it might be).

Another possibility is that Benson had literally heard it said by someone who had not later published it, and wanted to use it but not appear to take credit for the invention of another, whom he did not wish to identify by name at this particular juncture. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 23:42, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you insinuating that we're in some sort of danger here ?

130.74.59.35 (talk) 14:17, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who's in this video?

I see Biden and Harris but dont recognize the other two people Trade (talk) 01:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jill Biden and Doug Emhoff respectively. GalacticShoe (talk) 02:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Their spouses. Cullen328 (talk) 06:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 17

Detective story question

Hi all. In which Nancy Spain story does a hypodermic syringe prominently figure? Cheers, SerialNumber54129 17:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The answer might be found in A Trouser-wearing Character: The Life and Times of Nancy Spain p. 98. Celia, Tommy, Connie, Major Bognor— R in the Month? fiveby(zero) 17:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much, fiveby, that's the one! SerialNumber54129 11:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 18

Continent?

I've created Category:Aviators by continent. The only problem is Australia and Oceania, with the latter stating "Outside of the English-speaking world, Oceania is generally considered a continent, while Australia is regarded as an island or a continental landmass within that continent." So should the category include:

a category for Australia (Category:Australian aviators) and another for Oceania (Category:Oceanian aviators)
a category just for Oceania encompassing both
a single category for Australia and Oceania (Category:Australian and Oceanian aviators)? Clarityfiend (talk) 04:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look through Category:Categories_by_continent and see how others do it. Surely this isn't the first time this question has come up... --Wrongfilter (talk) 05:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generally, we have Category:X of Oceania with a subcategory Category:X of Australia (e.g. Category:Arthropods of Oceania with subcategory Category:Arthropods of Australia; Category:Cinema of Oceania with subcategory Category:Pornography (!) in Australia; Category:Organizations based in Oceania with subcategory Category:Organisations based in Australia; Category:Welfare in Oceania with subcategory Category:Welfare in Australia). --Lambiam 06:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those things by continent put under Europe also things from Iceland, Mallorca and Cyprus, which are, in terms of physical geography, islands in the middle of an ocean, either not part of any continent or tiny continents of their own. Great Britain at least is connected to Europe by the continental shelf, but the other islands I mentioned aren't. So those things by continent take continent (in the social geographical sense) to mean some part of the world that usually roughly coincides with a continent in the physical geographical sense, without actually being one, in such a way that no part is left out. Just like those small islands around Europe are grouped with the European continent, all those islands in the Pacific are grouped with the Australian continent (or the Zealandia submerged continent). But Australia doesn't take such a dominant place within Oceania (although it's still the majority of the land area) and is a country of its own, so in this case the large area is called Oceania, not Australia.

Conclusion: Australia is a continent in the physical geographical sense, Oceania is one in the social geographical sense and Australia is part of it, and those things by continent use the social geographical sense. PiusImpavidus (talk) 15:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:53, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

USA Vice President

In the USA, a person can be President for only two terms (8 years). Is there any similar restriction for being Vice President? Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 07:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, see Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Term_of_office. --Wrongfilter (talk) 08:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! 32.209.69.24 (talk) 19:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The bit about the President having only two terms means two consecutive terms. It's still an open question whether, say, Barack Obama, having already had two consecutive terms, could be elected to a third term after the eight-year break in which Trump and Biden occupied the Oval Office. It's never happened (at least not since the Constitution was changed to prevent a repeat of the people exercising their democratic choice to elect F D Roosevelt to a third and a fourth term), and it would probably need a Supreme Court to give it the imprimatur, but many of those who know the US Constitution better than I seem to think it's permissible. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution makes no distinction between consecutive and non-consecutive terms. --Amble (talk) 21:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure this question has come up here multiple times, and I'm almost sure what I said above applies. (That's as sure as I can be given the increasing addleness of my brain).

But the 22nd Amendment definitely does not prohibit a former president from being elected vice president and then succeeding as president on the death or resignation of the incumbent. And that could happen an unlimited number of times. Because the Amendment only talks about a limit on being elected president, not on becoming president some other way. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 17:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. Amble is correct. No one can be elected to more than 2 presidential terms, regardless of whether they are consecutive or not. And as DOR (ex-HK) points out, a person who is ineligible to be elected to the presidency (including one who has already been elected twice) is ineligible to be Vice President. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I stand corrected. Thank you. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In theory, I think Obama could become Speaker of the House, and then the presidency and vice-presidency could become vacant at the same time (or too quickly to replace the vice president), at which point he would become Acting President of the United States. We have never had an acting president for any extended length of time (unless you think Tyler was wrong in the first place) so this would be an uncomfortable situation and I won't venture to predict how it would be resolved. --Trovatore (talk) 21:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An ineligible Speaker would be skipped over for the next in the succession queue, iirc the President Pro Tem of the Senate. —Tamfang (talk) 00:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you point to the text on that? The 22nd amendment doesn't actually say that anyone is ineligible to be president, only that they can't be elected president. --Trovatore (talk) 00:25, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Presidential Succession Act restricts succession to those who "are eligible to the office of President under the Constitution" [1]. This is similar (but not identical) to the language in the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution. It hasn't been tested whether eligibility in these clauses includes the two-term limit established by the 22nd Amendment; see Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Interaction_with_the_Twenty-second_Amendment and Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Interaction_with_the_Twelfth_Amendment. So the question is not whether the 22nd Amendment directly applies to the vice presidency and to succession from other offices; the question is whether the eligibility clauses in the 12th Amendment and the Presidential Succession Act incorporate the two-term limit spelled out in the 22nd Amendment. From that point of view, there is no difference between eligibility to the vice presidency and eligibility to succeed as acting president through holding another office. For example, if Barack Obama can be elected vice president, then he could also succeed to the president as Speaker of the House, and vice versa; if he can't be elected vice president, then he can't succeed to the presidency as Speaker of the House either. I believe the (untested and still arguable) general assumption is that he isn't eligible to do either, because "eligibility" in the 12th Amendment and the Presidential Succession Act does in fact incorporate the two-term limit from the 22nd Amendment. --Amble (talk) 16:57, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The sticking point here is that the 22nd amendment doesn't say anyone is ineligible to be president, but only to be elected president, whereas the Presidential Succession Act refers to whether you're eligible to the presidency, not whether you're eligible to be elected president. Now, I grant you could argue etymologically that "eligible" comes from the same root as "elect", and you could possibly say that "ineligible" and "cannot be elected" are the same thing, but I think that's at least a question that would have to be tested in court. --Trovatore (talk) 19:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC) [reply]

I understand. Some agree with you, others do not. It is a debatable and unsettled point. The 12th Amendment and the Presidential Succession Act likewise do not say either "eligible to be president" or "eligible to be elected president". They simply say "eligible to the office of President". There is no verb. In the absence of a definitive precedent, you are free to make of this what you will. --Amble (talk) 19:46, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I had thought there was a difference here between the presidency (which can be acceded to only by election or by the vice president) versus the acting presidency (which is what the PSA applies to), but it does look like the issues are about the same in both cases. --Trovatore (talk) 22:07, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"As we clearly state, Obama is not eligible to be VP: "Under the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution, 'no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President [e.g., Obama!] shall be eligible to that of Vice President of the United States.'" DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 20:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Biden, Trump and Carter are available though. —Tamfang (talk) 19:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-related political history trivia Q: Who's the only person to have been POTUS, who never won any Electoral College votes? That would be Gerald Ford, appointed Tricky Dick's VP by Congress under the 25th Amd—with the understanding he had a decent chance of winding up in the Oval Office, as indeed happened. Replacing Spiro Agnew who was caught red-handed taking envelopes of cash in the VP office (continuing a longtime practice of his), and was allowed to plea bargain to an income tax charge in exchange for resigning, as there were some "clouds of suspicion" already re Watergate and influential people cared about giving Headless Agnew the heave-ho before he himself wound up the next POTUS (detailed in Bag Man). (Imagine, a shamelessly corrupt career criminal in the Oval Office!)

Extra fun history stuff the US had no way at all of replacing the VP mid-term prior to the 25th! Ratified less than a decade before it would become "necessary" to call upon. Guess it sometimes helps to think ahead huh. Yes, this meant Truman served his entire first term as prez with no VP, having succeeded FDR. ...The sharp-minded will note that this all provides excellent fuel for potential succession crises and political instability: if the executive and legislature are controlled by opposing parties, if the P/VP can both be thrown overboard—one way or another—under the current rules the de facto "head" of Congress takes over the executive, in a nice orderly political coup. (As students of history ought to know the US system was never "supposed" to have political parties and it shows, a lot. A growing consensus seems to slowly have developed in pol sci that presidential systems are more prone to political instability than ones with some fusion of powers: this illustrates one facet of why.)

If not for the 25th, had Nixon and Agnew both been tossed out via whatever means, meet your 38th POTUS: Carl Albert of and I swear to God I am not making this up Bugtussle, Oklahoma, the "Little Giant from Little Dixie"! In September 1972, Albert was witnessed driving drunk and crashing into two cars in the Cleveland Park neighborhood of Washington.[22] --Slowking Man (talk) 17:34, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gerald Ford did win electoral votes -- just not in an election that he won. He received 240 electoral votes in the 1976 United States presidential election. That's more electoral votes than George Washington received in his lifetime (of course, there were a lot fewer electoral votes back then). --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:28, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are of course technically correct... the best kind of correct! Strictly correct phrasing would be, "became POTUS without ever receiving any electoral votes" or, "became both VP/P without ever being elected to either office".

(As for Georgie, it's not like he needed to worry about whether he "won" enough "votes": extremely NSFW audio) --Slowking Man (talk) 03:25, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mrs George Canninge

Mrs George Canninge, who acted under that name although her given name was Sarah, was a well-known character actress in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Among other roles, she created that of Miss Prism in The Importance of Being Earnest in 1895. I'd like to put together a short article about her, but I cannot discover her date of death. Grateful for any steer in the right direction. I have access to Ancestry and the British Library Newspaper archive, but have drawn a blank in both. Tim riley talk 10:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alive and living with George at 35 Belsize Avenue, Bowes Park N, Southgate, Middlesex in the 1911 Census. Born Stepney 1843. DuncanHill (talk) 16:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that. I can trace her into a bit later in the C20th and really need her date of death. But thanks nevertheless Tim riley talk 17:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find their marriage, her maiden name, her birth, or his birth. Do we know if they were even married, was Canninge George's birth name? DuncanHill (talk) 19:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Traditionally in the British system, honorifics which a woman owed to being married were not put before her own first name. So Diana, Princess of Wales is correct, but Princess Diana of Wales incorrect. On the level of ordinary married women, this led to Mrs. George Canninge (see Princess Michael of Kent). AnonMoos (talk) 19:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To save anyone from trying to reinvent the wheel I think I should point out that the same question was asked here three years ago and some limited progress was made. Incidentally, everyone there and here seems to have put much faith in stated ages and stated dates of birth. My own 19th-century ancestors usually gave both wrongly, and none of them had the excuse of being an actress. I advise caution. --Antiquary (talk) 13:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

World War II: Japanese-Americans in the Japanese military

Were there Japanese-Americans in the Japanese armed forces during World War II? 81.152.122.255 (talk) 19:28, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Yes. For example, see Internment of Japanese Americans#Proving commitment to the United States and the section of that article just before it. Dekimasuよ! 03:22, 19 October 2024 (UTC)~~Sorry, my mistake. Dekimasuよ! 08:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the OP was asking about the Japanese army, not the American army. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found an excellent article Stranded: Nisei in Japan Before, During, and After World War II that describes several books and other resources about the experiences of Japanese Americans who happened to be in Japan at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack. Many of the young men were either conscripted into the Japanese Army or in some cases, served willingly. In one case, Iwao Peter Sano, an American citizen conscripted into the Japanese Army, spent nearly three years in a Soviet POW camp in Siberia, and later wrote a book about his experiences that was published by the University of Nebraska.

US born Tomoya Kawikata was convicted of treason after the war and his story is described in Kawakita v. United States. He was not officially in the Japanese Army but was a translator at a nickel mine under Japanese military control where American and Canadian POWs worked under exceptionally harsh conditions, and he brutalized many prisoners. He was sentenced to death but the sentence was later commuted to life in prison. In 1963, President Kennedy ordered him released as a goodwill gesture. He was deported permanently to Japan. Cullen328 (talk) 06:54, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nice. "Brothers went to war, but not all on the same side". fiveby(zero) 15:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's right. I mean the Japanese army. 81.152.122.255 (talk) 19:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article, Stranded: Nisei in Japan Before, During, and After World War II mentions several Japanese-Americans who were conscripted into the Japanese Army, including a Seattle footballer who published The Two Worlds of Jim Yoshida. Alansplodge (talk) 13:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alansplodge, "footballer" is not a term used in American English. Those who compete in Gridiron football are universally called "football players" and those who play Association football are called "soccer players" in American English. Basketball players are sometimes called "b-ballers" but this is slang usage. Cullen328 (talk) 22:51, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Basketball players are sometimes called ~~"b-ballers"~~ "cagers", but i didn't know why until[2][3]. Should write that down somewhere. fiveby(zero) 23:13, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the correction, the British term seems more concise though. Alansplodge (talk) 13:53, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is more concise but it is a term largely unknown in American English. Cullen328 (talk) 01:38, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The goose, Amun-Re, and his goose, the symbol of Amun-Re

I'd love to see this item. "A New Kingdom stela from the Theban workmen's village at Deir el-Medina bears images of two geese associated with Amun-Re: one of them, described as 'the beautiful goose of Amun-Re', is an image of the sacred bird, while the other, 'Amun-Re, the beautiful goose', depicts the god himself."^[1]^[2] I couldn't google up the stela, or find it in Petries "Anhas el-Medineh", and I don't think it's the "Mona Lisa of Egypt" painting of geese from Thebes (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jasrep.2021.102834), (https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/eg/original/DT226227.jpg) does anybody have a tip? Temerarius (talk) 22:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC) Temerarius (talk) 22:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two Amun-Re geese of different ontological status

Here ya go! Card Zero (talk) 03:44, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, thank you! I wonder which Huy it is. Is the horizontal line hieroglyph Y1 papyrus? O34 & N37 's'?

Temerarius (talk) 16:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can nearly piece together which Huy. This is catalog item 1607 in the Egyptian Museum of Turin. Item 1608 is another stela of Huy, also from Deir el-Medina. This document mentions "Stela Cat. 1609 of the chief craftsman Huy (TT 361)". I can't find that! But TT 361 is a tomb number, and Osirisnet mentions "Huy, the owner of TT361". So circumstantially it's that Huy. Not one of the famous Huys, just some Huy. "Main carpenter in the place of truth." Regarding the hieroglyphs, I think his name starts at the bottom of the column above his right hand with the tusk, followed by the tied papyrus (what does that do phonetically?) and ends with two reeds at the top of the next column (above his face). I might be totally wrong about it, but his name ought to be there somewhere, right? In which case, the tusk looks annoyingly similar to a straight horizontal line, and probably lots of the other horizontal lines are assorted different hieroglyphs engraved almost identically.

Regarding the god-and-symbol-of-god, presumably the same thing is happening here only with Amon-Ra as a ram this time. Card Zero (talk) 00:32, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per Jsesh, Y1 horizontal papyrus whatsit has sound values dmD, mDAt. Maybe it's being used as a determinative for Hui the scribe in its rendering on the page Huy? Its use with F18 tongue "Hw" (et al) makes me imagine the intended meaning could be related to the concept of word, as it would have been clearer in pronunciation (helpfully redundant) to use an anthopomorphic determinative A24 or A25. Of course, you never know why someone didn't do something.

Temerarius (talk) 18:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://i.postimg.cc/ZnGX3LKQ/image.png
^ Germond, Philippe; Livet, Jacques (2001). An Egyptian Bestiary. New York, N.Y: Thames & Hudson. ISBN 0-500-51059-8.

Presentation of national election polling in America

How come all polls in nationwide opinion polling for the 2024 United States presidential election seem to present the result as percentages of votes in the nationwide voting? Wouldn't it be more interesting to present the number of Electoral College votes each of the candidates can be foreseen to get? It is after all the Electoral College which decides who will become president. GotoGothenburg (talk) 22:38, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They look at various things: National percentages, percentages by state, and also percentages for the "battleground" states, the so-called "purple" states, which will likely decide the election. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Baseball Bugs, it's not presented like that at the page I linked. It is just percentages for the national level. So your answer does not address the question. GotoGothenburg (talk) 14:26, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't mean it couldn't be. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That wouldn't be nationwide polling. There are many, many polls available for most states. Especially the battleground states. But you won't find those results if you are looking at nationwide polls. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 19

Carjacking#Prevention and response

In what parts of the world is this good advice:

Use of the vehicle as a weapon against the car jacker, or a firearm or pepper spray.

Doug butler (talk) 06:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nowhere. Those are good ways to get killed. I removed that unreferenced and ridiculous "advice" from the article. Cullen328 (talk) 07:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Years of service as President or Vice President (USA)

If you add up all the time that an individual served as either President or Vice President of the USA, which individual accumulated the most time? In other words, who served the longest? (Excluding FDR, I assume.) Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 07:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reason to exclude FDR. The top contenders are Franklin D. Roosevelt and Richard Nixon. FDR was never vice-president but he was elected president four times. He died shortly after his fourth inauguration, serving 12 years and a little over a month. Nixon served two full terms as vice-president under Dwight Eisenhower, and was elected president twice. He resigned a bit over a year and a half into his second term, so he wins the prize with over 13-1/2 years in those roles. Third place goes to John Adams who served two full terms as vice-president under George Washinton followed by one full term of his own as president, for 12 years. Cullen328 (talk) 07:22, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just tallied up the number of days every President and Vice President has served in office, a list that has 79 people. You're dead on about Nixon being first (4949 days) and FDR being second (4422 days.) However, while John Adams did indeed serve three full terms, he didn't start serving his first VP term until April 21, 1789 as opposed to the standard March 4, as noted in John Adams#Election. If we go purely by actual service time and not expected term time, this means that he served 4334 days, which would actually be fifth place. In third place would be George H. W. Bush, who served three full terms (twice VP, once president) for a total of 4383 days, and in fourth place would be Thomas Jefferson, who also served three full terms (once VP, twice president) but lost out by a day due to 1800 not being a leap year, for 4382 days total. The only other person to serve more than two terms worth is none other than Joe Biden, whose tally is at 4290 days and counting.

Other interesting notes from the tally:

The most common service lengths are 1461 days and 2922 days. 32 people have served the former, and 20 people have served the latter. Of course, this is just 4 years'/8 years' worth of days respectively, including the expected 1/2 leap day(s).
6 people, as mentioned earlier, have served more than two terms' worth of days, 7 people served between one and two terms' worth of days, and 14 people served less than one term's worth of days (although this 14 also includes Kamala Harris, who will likely join the 1 termers, possibly more pending the upcoming election.)
Somehow, Thomas Jefferson is the only person whose position on the list was meaningfully affected by the leap year century rule. While John Adams also lost a day to the 1800 lack of leap day, his aforementioned late VP term start day more than offset that otherwise-minor difference. William McKinley's loss of a day in 1900 would have been meaningful if he hadn't been assassinated. Similarly, his first VP Garret Hobart died in office in 1899, and the next VP after him, none other than Teddy Roosevelt, started his term in 1901. Finally, 2000 was a leap year, so no chance for any strangeness there.
Even with vice presidents added, William Henry Harrison's 31-day presidential term is the shortest time served, although William R. King's 45-day VP term comes close.
Speaking of coming close, by pure coincidence, Henry Wilson's 993-day term as the 18th VP from March 4, 1873 to November 22, 1875 - a term which ended in death by stroke - was one day longer than Garret Hobart's 992-day term as the 24th VP from March 4, 1897 to November 21, 1899 - which ended also in death, except by heart disease.

GalacticShoe (talk) 15:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your excellent research, GalacticShoe. Cullen328 (talk) 16:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, all, for the insightful and thorough answers. Does Wikipedia have any type of (single) article about this type of scenario? (Without having to piece together info from separate articles.) Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 01:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not one I'm aware of top of my head. List of people by time served as President and/or Vice-President of the United States seems to have potential but obv needs editors. ('Fraid I have several irons in the fire I'm working on and can't get right on that at present.) If so inclined, if you make an account you get your very own userspace to work on stuff at your leisure. If you wish to work on that bug me on my talk and I can move it for you when it's in shape to go "live". Slowking Man (talk) 17:55, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source location -- Mirabella September 1990, Peter Schjeldahl

Hi -- I was hoping to get some assistance in locating a source for an article I'm editing (Cady Noland). The piece I'm looking for is in the September 1990 edition of Mirabella (WorldCat link for magazine), pp 88-93: "Venice Anyone?" by Peter Schjeldahl. No libraries in my vicinity have a copy of that issue, bound or otherwise, but it's been referenced quite a few times in other literature about Noland, with some pretty great quotes/analysis that I'd love to see in total. Any idea where I might be able to find a full-text transcription or otherwise get access to this? Any assistance appreciated. Thanks! 19h00s (talk) 19:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone may be able to help you here, but posting at WP:REX is more likely to connect you with someone who can supply you with the article. Deor (talk) 13:14, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That was gonna be my next question, wasn't sure if there was a better place to ask! Thanks for this :) 19h00s (talk) 14:32, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 20

Trotskyism: Adaptations.

Hello, I was wondering if there are any adaptations or variations of Trotskysism (or lenninism to an extent) that focuses more solely on economics or economic theory, maybe more specifically on distribution of resources. I think this might just be a certain branch of Communist economics, however I am not too well versed in economics so any helps is appreciated. NIght Palace (talk) 03:36, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither Trotskyist not Leninist, but left communist: Fundamental Principles of Communist Production and Distribution. This is an English translation of Grundprinzipien kommunistischer Produktion und Verteilung. Although originally published in German, in 1930, it was written by members of the Dutch council-communist Groep van Internationale Communisten, with Jan Appel as the main author. --Lambiam 17:15, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He seems to have had a lot in common with the later policies of Deng Xiaoping, particularly a mixed public/private economy. Trotsky appears to have sought to de-emphasize heavy industry in favor of more open trade as a means of accumulating foreign exchange. His electrification commission hearkens to infrastructure development, and he criticized Stalin for ignoring consumerism.

Our article also cites Stafford Beer’s Project Cybersyn in Chile as influenced by Trotsky. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 18:11, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, consumerism isn't compatible with Primitive socialist accumulation... AnonMoos (talk) 23:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sesame Street season 55

At around this time last year there was official evidence that Sesame Street's 54th season was in development. But there's no evidence of any kind that season 55 is in development. Does this mean that the season is taking a while for some reason?? Please answer with your best knowledge. Georgia guy (talk) 15:38, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you looked for this on Google? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:11, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gilt masks: cost today

How much gold is there in a mask of Tutankhamun, Psusennes, Amenemope? I'm wondering the material cost were in replica. Temerarius (talk) 17:56, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word "gilt" is a little ambiguous here. Gold leaf hammered thin isn't all that expensive, but solid gold is a different proposition. The so-called "Mask of Agamemnon" contains a significant amount of gold, but I don't know how the Egyptian masks were made (though I was probably close to one at a King Tut exhibition long ago)... AnonMoos (talk) 00:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's funny that comes up, they say the so-called is also called the "Mona Lisa of prehistory" (ugh,) where just above I quoted somebody calling a ducks painting the "Mona Lisa of Egypt," which is a high piece of praise for such an accomplished culture. Somebody should create Category:Mona Lisas of Places. Anyways, most mentions don't use the words "gilt" or "solid."

Temerarius (talk) 02:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Mona Lisa being, of course, the Machu Picchu of Great Buddha of Kamakura...s. Slowking Man (talk) 03:30, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why would the replica replicate the amount of gold? Is this an exercise in experimental archeology? If the goal is to show the replica in a museum, they'd electro-plate it. Probably gold-plated nickel-plated copper. Who'd know? Card Zero (talk) 04:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There may be symbolism involved in using actual gold rather than something that just looks like gold. There's a 21st-century replica of the Polish coronation crown that was melted down by the Prussians in 1811; not only does it contain real solid gold, but it's specifically gold obtained from Prussian coins that were minted in 1811. — Kpalion^(talk) 10:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nota bene: "gilding"/"gold plating" uses real true honest gold as the surface gilding layer. It's just that the bulk "interior" substance isn't gold—or sometimes, can be different gold alloys (as with the plating as well), for reasons beyond just cost. Pure 100% gold is quite soft and can be scratched and bent without too much trouble, problematic for many purposes. (Indeed see other comment re: the alloys used in the real mask) That shiny stuff in lots of electronics is indeed true actual gold (alloy), just very thin layers/wires. Hard to beat gold for resistance to many things like corrosion! And thin means thin: gold is so malleable it can be beaten translucent and even a single atom thick! Check it out! Also why along w/ strength when alloyed it has long been used in dental restoration: easy to shape and a little goes a long way. Slowking Man (talk) 18:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Our Mask of Tutankhamun article says:

It is fashioned from two layers of high-karat gold, varying from 1.5–3 mm (0.059–0.118 in) in thickness, and weighing 10.23 kg (22.6 lb).[7] X-ray crystallography conducted in 2007 revealed that the mask is primarily made of copper-alloyed 23 karat gold to facilitate the cold working used to shape the mask. The surface of the mask is covered in a very thin layer (approximately 30 nanometres) of two different alloys of gold: a lighter 18.4 karat shade for the face and neck, and 22.5 karat gold for the rest of the mask.

Assuming that the average purity of the gold used is 22 carat, Google says the scrap value of the actual mask today would be about GBP 5,825 or USD 7,590. As others have pointed out, there would be no need to replicate the exact metal content in a replica intended for display. Alansplodge (talk) 12:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alansplodge, perhaps you made an error in your Google query. Today's price for ten kilograms of gold is $875,180. Cullen328 (talk) 22:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, "those damned dots". Only out by two places... Alansplodge (talk) 12:47, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 21

Syrian-Israeli history: what is happening in this scene of A Plate of Sardines?

I was watching Omar Amiralay's 1997 film A Plate of Sardines, a documentary about Quneitra. At the end of the film (viewable here; scene starts at 13:03), we see two Arab women communicating via megaphones over what seems to be a border between Syria and Israel. Can someone explain to me what is happening, if it's apparent? Is the Syrian woman speaking to friends or family who are citizens of Israel? In the Palestinian territories? Thanks! Zanahary 07:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See United Nations Disengagement Observer Force and Golan Heights. DuncanHill (talk) 12:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zanahary -- They're likely Druze (the woman on the Israel side living in Majdal Shams or another smaller Druze village on the Golan Heights). Almost all the Syrian inhabitants of that area who were not Druze fled in 1967. The Golan Druze are not Palestinians, and many of them might not consider themselves to have much in common with the inhabitants of the West Bank or Gaza. AnonMoos (talk) 12:47, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 22

Which object is experiencing inflation in this situation?

In a hypothetical economy involving shark scales and Rubik’s cubes, if one Rubik’s cube goes from being exchangeable for six shark scales in fiscal quarter 1 to being exchangeable for three shark scales in fiscal quarter 4, which item is experiencing inflation and/or deflation with respect to the other and by how much? Primal Groudon (talk) 21:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See inflation. It doesn't refer to specific products or prices. It refers to the overall economy. When the general cost of products goes up, buying power decreases, and you have inflation. In your example buying power went from 1 cube for 6 scales to 2 cubes for 6 scales. If cubes is the currency, you have inflation. If scales is the currency, you went from 6 scales for 1 cube to 3 scales for 1 cube. That is deflation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.174.155 (talk) 23:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In your hypothetical economy, I assume you mean, shark scales is the currency and Rubik’s cubes is the only product. The price of Rubik’s cube went down from 6 shark scales in Q1 to 3 shark scales in Q4, which means the price of Rubik’s cubes drop by 50% in three quarters (equivalent to an annual fall of 66.7%). As Rubik’s cubes are the only product in your hypothetical economy, the supply and demand of Rubik’s cubes are equal to the AS and AD of the economy, also the change in the Rubik’s cubes price is qual to the change in the general price level, therefore, there is a 66.7% deflation in your economy. Stanleykswong (talk) 09:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My intention was more of a barter economy, but I’ll accept that response. Primal Groudon (talk) 13:39, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Inflation is purely a monetary phenomenon, it cannot occur in a barter economy Stanleykswong (talk) 16:07, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Inflation depends strongly on demand, so calling it "purely a monetary phenomenon" is highly misleadiing. In the two-item economy, rather than one where shark scales are currency, one item inflation in value and the other deflated, by an equal (opposite) amount. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 17:00, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you to read Milton Friedman's (1994) “Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon”.

Moreover, there is no doubt that inflation is affected by AD, but If AS increases more than AD, economic growth will not bring forth inflation. Stanleykswong (talk) 17:15, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Inflation is money-based by definition. It is common for people to say something like "gas prices have gone up so there's inflation." Inflation isn't an increase in price of a specific product. Inflation is a decrease in the purchasing power of a currency. Things cost more because the currency has decreased in purchasing power. It isn't that one thing got more expesinve or even two things got more expensive. It is purely the decrease in purchasing power of the currency which has the effect of increasing the price of everything. It can have weird effects. As an example, I purchased Milka chocolates a couple weeks ago. The country I purchased them from is going through increased inflation. Their kroner is losing purchasing power, so the price of the Milka chocolates keeps going up. But, the purchasing power of the dollar has gone up in comparison. So, from one month to the next, the price of the Milka chocolates went down. Inflation is dependent on the currency. From one currency, there is inflation causing the price in a specific product to increase. From another currency, there is deflation, causing the price of a specific product to decrease. I hope that is a good example to demonstrate that inflation is based on currency and not products. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:40, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A problem is that people who are not economists (and even they can get sloppy at times) frequently use "inflation" to refer simply to all instances of "price has gone up". "The Beanie Baby factory caught fire and now the price of Beanie Babies has gone up and my kids need those things! Damn inflation! Damn you, $POLITICAL_FIGURE_OF_PERSONAL_OPPROBRIUM why did you make the prices go up?! I'm voting your ass out next election!" As the good article sez the strict economics definition is "a general rise in prices" in an economy (deflation being the inverse). But in the "modern world" economies tend to be highly "monetized" (ooh that redlink needs to go somewhere), with prices all being specified in a single currency within a given currency area, so people are used to associating "price of X" -> "monetary unit in which these prices are expressed in", and then reifying all "changes in price of X" -> "some quality about the monetary unit has necessarily changed, this being the cause of said effect". Some changes in a price are caused by a change in the unit in which the price is expressed; therefore, all changes in a price are caused by a change in the price unit.

Historical note good to keep in mind, economies with a single stableish monetary unit used for most things are historically aberrant, only things which exist in large (large as in "size of govt apparatus and institutions") centralized states, which can set produce maintain and enforce a reliable monetary standard. (The Bank of England is probably underappreciated as a factor in the explosive growth of British industry and the maritime Empire. As was the US's ability to establish and maintain US dollar stability post-WWII, including as "anchor" of the Bretton Woods system, in its global hegemony.) How many florin (coin) are those shark scales going for, and what's the exchg rate like right now with my pieces of eight?

Also speaking of, understand that barter economies are quite uncommon historically and mostly only existed to facilitate "long-distance" trading networks btwn societies (think for ex the historical North American fur trade). Most economies have always used money of some sorts for most economic activity and most money has always existed as debt. (Debt is simply in its most fundamental sense a promise.) This is being better appreciated these days in econ. --Slowking Man (talk) 19:16, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 23

House of Commons, 1808

The House of Commons - *The Microcosm of London* (1808-1811)

Greetings, Keepers of the Flame! I came across this exquisite pic (by Augustus Charles Pugin (architectural details), figures by Thomas Rowlandson) of the old HoC in St Stephen's Chapel, and wondered if anyone might be able to identify any of the politicians depicted, to improve its description on Commons (no relation). This would seem to be during the minority Pittite Tory Second Ministry (March 1807 – October 1809) of William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland, probably the standing figure.

The Speaker would be Charles Abbot, 1st Baron Colchester, looking more like this pic: File:Speaker Abbot after James Northcote.jpg. Other possible figures on the Government benches could be:

Lord Eldon—Lord Chancellor
Lord Camden—Lord President of the Council
Lord Westmorland—Lord Privy Seal
Lord Hawkesbury, after 1808, Lord Liverpool – Secretary of State for the Home Department
George Canning—Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs
Lord Castlereagh—Secretary of State for War and the Colonies
Lord Mulgrave—First Lord of the Admiralty
Spencer Perceval—Chancellor of the Exchequer and of the Duchy of Lancaster
Lord Chatham—Master-General of the Ordnance
Lord Bathurst—President of the Board of Trade

Would the opposition benches be led by William Grenville, 1st Baron Grenville? And who might the youthful figures at the lower right be?

As far as the architecture is concerned, is this Wren's work? Cheers, MinorProphet (talk) 13:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MinorProphet - mostly Wren's - see St Stephen's Chapel for details. Alansplodge (talk) 12:39, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As it's the House of Commons then it won't include members of the House of Lords, eg Portland, Eldon, Camden, etc. But watch out for Irish peers, who could be MPs. DuncanHill (talk) 17:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So, none of the above, then.[4] I note with joy that Archive.org is back up, for the time being anyway.[5] MinorProphet (talk) 11:43, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Castlereagh and Canning were in the Commons. DuncanHill (talk) 11:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted - so it could be Castlereagh standing. A little digging shows that the clerk (centre table) seems to be John Ley, Deputy clerk.[6]. MinorProphet (talk) 14:35, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Original Latin text of a subpoena

The word subpoena is from the opening words of the writ. I am trying to track down the original Latin text of a subpoena which begins "Sub pœna [...]" so I can add it to the Wiktionary entry. So far I've had no success. Can anyone provide a reference? Thanks. — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not hard to fine texts issuing commands sub pena,^[7][8][9] but not as the opening words; the typical format is that so-and-so must do this or that sub pena of forfeiture, a fine, or some other unpleasantries. --Lambiam 21:11, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Lambiam: well, various dictionaries claim that the English word is derived from the first words of the writ in Latin, so I thought it is worth trying to track down the actual wording of that specific writ which would be one summoning a defendant to the Court of Chancery to answer a plaintiff's suit (the original sense), or one summoning a witness to testify in a trial. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:12, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"From the opening words" does not necessarily imply "the first two words": that they are from the opening sentence would suffice (I suggest). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 07:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Latin-derived law terms of art often are the beginning words of formulaic documents, but in this case I doubt that these dictionaries are correct. Compare the formulation "the Name of it proceeds from the Words therein" in a Law dictionary from 1750.^[10] --Lambiam 09:11, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lambiam: I take the point that the words sub poena may not have been the first two words of the writ, but could well have been somewhere in the opening section. That’s why I feel it would be good to try to see what the actual Latin wording was. One would think that it should be fairly straightforward to retrieve some samples, but surprisingly it’s not! — Sgconlaw (talk) 10:23, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I had an interesting hunt for eg pix or transcriptions of documents, but turned up nothing substantial. This paper discusses (among other things) the legality of subpoenas issued by Chancery vs. common law, but has no specific examples. A note refers to "Treatise on the Subpoena", Ch. IV in Hargrave's Law Tracts 348 [pdf 423] (1786) but with no result. (MS letters included at the start of the high-resolution scan from the BM indicate this may have been Hargrave's own copy.) From England Chancery Court Records: "Proceedings consist of the following documents: ... Writ of Subpoena ordering the defendant to appear in court. Not a lot of these have survived." Although there was a lot of Latin phraseology involved, would they not have been in English, anyway? MinorProphet (talk) 13:22, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll bet those Court of Chancery documents were destroyed in the Burning of Parliament in 1834. Abductive (reasoning) 19:16, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two examples of the use in subpoena writs in 14th-century Chancery cases: ... Et hoc sub pena centum librarum nullatenus omittas ...^[11][12].

(Alternative links: [13], [14].) --Lambiam 07:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, £100 fine in 1388 - that's fairly steep: not quite yer average king's ransom."In 2023, the relative value of £100 0s 0d from 1388 ranges from £92,360.00 to £67,680,000.00"[15] (Another alternative for the first link,[16] seems to work: with facing pages in a pdf reader it's most impressive.) 'Egethoyn', whither Dane was bound, appears to be Egerton, Kent: would our article benefit from this recondite snippet of info...? It's not exactly encyclopedic. Might the aggressor have been an ancestor of the artist? MinorProphet (talk) 20:45, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 26

Swimming the English Channel, legal aspects

Swimming the English Channel is a list of notable swimmers, plus details on a few specific swims. However, nothing's said about the legal/diplomatic aspects; from an international border perspective, how does swimming the Channel work? Must the successful swimmer present himself to the destination country's customs officials as soon as possible? I'm left wondering if perhaps this accomplishment is rare enough, and its attempts heavily publicised enough, that the customs authorities tend to make special allowances for it, as was done for Lynne Cox when she swam from the US to the Soviet Union (the Diomede Islands) during the Cold War. Nyttend (talk) 03:59, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Same as visitors arriving by boat. Even the first (failed) attempt with no artificial aid in 1872 had a support boat.
Sleigh (talk) 04:50, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See https://www.channelswimmingassociation.com/swim-advice/administration-of-swims Nanonic (talk) 11:59, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"If you intend to enter France instead of returning to England, you will need to enter as a normal visitor and comply with all the usual regulations (AND inform the CSA and your pilot well in advance that this is your plan).

You are permitted to land on the Beach and then return to your Escort Boat for the journey back to England .....but please note that all Swimmers and Passengers should carry their Passport (and any Visa, if appropriate) on the Escort Boat in case they are requested by the relevant Authorities to provide Proof of Identity either before, during, or after the Swim.

Be aware that escort boats can be boarded and occasionally are boarded." Nanonic (talk) 12:03, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What a disgrace.

Is this what we defeated the Prussians for?

I mean, the Russians?

Does this include all arrivals to Northern France by water, or only those who weren't cut down by the Krauts' concentrated fire?

Al. M. G. 2004 (talk) 15:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What car is that?

I wonder what car they are standing in front of in this picture:

Could someone identify it?

(Other automobiles in the picture are more easily dentified, probably because they are more common vehicles.)

Ove Raul (talk) 08:47, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

fiat coupe 850? 119.17.158.183 (talk) 10:54, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Already in the categories on the image: [17] Fiat 850 Coupé Andy Dingley (talk) 11:29, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. Thank you! Ove Raul (talk) 16:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 27

Turquoise cheese and margarine

In The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (video game), there is a part which goes:

"The barman gives you a cheese sandwich. The bread is like the stuff that stereos come packed in, the cheese would be great for rubbing out spelling mistakes, and the margarine and pickle have performed an unedifying chemical reaction to produce something that shouldn't be, but is, turquoise. Since it is clearly unfit for human consumption, you are grateful to be charged only a pound for it."

I remember the turquoise thing from when I was a kid in the 1980s, so I can attest that it wasn't caused by mould, nor by the margarine being dyed. But what was it? I haven't seen it for decades, thankfully. Marnanel (talk) 17:38, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not really sure what he's talking about (I was a young adult in Britain in the 1980s), but for the benefit of non-Britons, the "pickle" in question is Branston pickle or one of its imitators. Alansplodge (talk) 12:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps a reaction with garlic? [18], [19] --136.56.165.118 (talk) 14:25, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good find, but there's no garlic in Branston pickle (I just looked at my jar). Alansplodge (talk) 19:55, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But! The almost original recipe Branston pickle does contain garlic, according to food.com. Card Zero (talk) 09:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 28

Did women having to wear skirts have anything to do with menstruation?

As in, before menstruation products became good and accessible, seems like pants would have been more prone to blood going through and been visible? Was it more of a menstruation taboo/norm thing than a blind sexism thing?

Couldn't find anything about this on the page Skirt nor the page Culture and menstruation. Wallby (talk) 07:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More importantly, urinating. Abductive (reasoning) 10:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe that explains kilts. <-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 10:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine it was originally more to do with preserving women's modesty, until hemlines shortened in the 20th century having the opposite effect. Note that today, most Orthodox Jewish women do not wear trousers for reasons of modesty. Alansplodge (talk) 12:23, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article Trousers as women's clothing may be of interest: menstruation is nowhere mentioned. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 12:34, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the real question why men started to wear trousers? In ancient times, weren't robes and such standard dress for all? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Khajidha -- In ancient times, trousers were worn mainly by peoples who had a way of life which relied intensively on horse-riding. In the eyes of the Greeks and Romans, such peoples were barbarians, so that tunics and togas were considered civilized wear, as opposed to barbaric trousers. As barbarian tribes increasingly impinged on civilized zones of both the Roman and Persian empires, trousers became worn by cavalry soldiers, then more widely in societies. But well into the European middle ages, upper-class males or males with certain special statuses (such as priests), still often wore robes. Among ordinary people, the hemlines of men's tunics were often higher than those of women, but it wasn't until the roughly the 1400s that some men commonly exposed most of their legs (encased in leggings or "hose") in a way that would have been considered indecent if done by a woman. From then on, the trousers for men vs. dresses for women dichotomy developed, but male priests, males involved in formal academic ceremonies, and royals at coronation etc. ceremonies still sometimes wear robes today... AnonMoos (talk) 14:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Israel: Matriculation rate by religion

According to the most recent data, what's the % of people who have successfully passed Israel's high school matriculation examination among the population of the 18yo age group (not only among the students who sat for the exam)? (out of all How does this differ among religious groups? I found different numbers:

2019 ToI: "Fully 70.9% of Christian high schoolers achieve college-entry matriculation grades, slightly higher than Jews (70.6%), and higher still than Druze (63.7%) and Muslims (45.2%)."
2022 INN: "91.3% of Druze gain matriculation certificate compared to just 26.2 percent of haredi students."
Druze_in_Israel#Educational_prospects: "According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics census in 2020, 79.9% of Druze in Israel were entitled to a matriculation certificate, which was higher than the number of Muslims (60.3%), but was lower than the Christians (83.6%) and Jews (80.2%) with a matriculation certificate."
Christianity_in_Israel#High_school_and_matriculation_exams: "In 2016 Arab Christians had the highest rates of success at matriculation examinations, namely 73.9%, both in comparison to Muslim and Druze Israelis (41% and 51.9% respectively), and to the students from the different branches of the Hebrew (majority Jewish) education system considered as one group (55.1%)."

a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All kinds of things come to mind. The en.wiki and he.wiki don't say if you can take or retake the exam when you are, say, 19. The figures might be for all people, all Israeli citizens, all students (including or not dropouts), or just all students who got a high school completion diploma (perhaps just a snapshot collected in a particular year by calling around to the high schools). Abductive (reasoning) 10:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Do we have the latest official data somewhere? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 17:22, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

chief,

don't you answer your own question, when you give statistics from different years?

census in 2020' ... 'in 2016' ... 2019 and 2022 second-order sources as well, chief,

what percentage of israeli high-schoolers graduate high school (because the English article mentions a diploma, which is issued separately, simply for completion of twelve years of study, in the Israeli system)

compare this with the total population of this age cohort behind the allenby line, or what-have-you, and the percentage attaining bagrut, then you will have your answer

Al. M. G. 2004 (talk) 15:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ramsese II colossus

You used to have images of Ramsesii colossus and how it was displayed. I cannot find the page and I looked all 75.99.255.115 (talk) 19:12, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Try Category:Ramses II colossal statue in Memphis over on Wikimedia Commons. Alansplodge (talk) 19:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Longest recorded flight

What was the longest flight in world history? I'm strictly interested in duration, regardless of manned/unmanned status, refuelling, distance flown, etc.: the only limitation is that I'm not interested in spacecraft. Almost everything I find on Google is related to the longest scheduled airline flights. Flight endurance record addresses the question, but it bears {{Incomplete list}}, and all of its top-duration flights are small piston-engined or experimental solar-powered aircraft. The source for the longest one of all, [20], merely speaks of it as the "world endurance record in a propeller-driven airplane", so I'm further questioning whether there might be something longer, e.g. if a major country's military wanted to keep an important aircraft aloft at all times for a while. Nyttend (talk) 19:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Operation Power Flite (45 hours and 19 minutes) might be of interest. Alansplodge (talk) 19:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 216 hours without refueling, stopping, or exiting the atmosphere. --Amble (talk) 20:35, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Breitling Orbiter flew around the world in 478 hours. Despite the name, it was a balloon, not a spacecraft. --Amble (talk) 20:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Airbus Zephyr S is an unmanned aircraft that flew continuously for 64 days. --Amble (talk) 20:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The longest item on the list I found, a Cessna 172, flew a little longer than the Airbus Zephyr. Nyttend (talk) 21:24, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A Google Loon flew for 312 days in 2019-2020 [21]. —Amble (talk) 03:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 29

King of Albania: unfulfilled promises

From King of Albania:

While the medieval Kingdom of Albania was a monarchy, it did not encompass the entirety of modern Albania. Although discontent among Albanian nobles emerged by 1282 due to the Angevin king's unfulfilled promises, the kingdom did not end at that time.

What is meant by “unfulfilled promises?” The article provides no citation nor does it elaborate any further in the body. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 07:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who puts a conjunction at the beginning of an introduction? That's horrible. Well, I restored the word "Angevin" from the first sentence, which was removed two edits ago by an IP editor without explanation, and now you have a bit more context. I think you're supposed to read the article Regnum Albaniæ (good luck typing that), AKA Kingdom of Albania (medieval), where we read (buried mid-paragraph halfway down the second section!) Charles signed a treaty with them and was proclaimed King of Albania "by common consent of the bishops, counts, barons, soldiers and citizens" promising to protect them and to honor the privileges they had from Byzantine Empire. Then further on, Charles of Anjou imposed a military rule on Kingdom of Albania. The autonomy and privileges promised in the treaty were "de facto" abolished and new taxes were imposed. Lands were confiscated in favor of Anjou nobles and Albanian nobles were excluded from their governmental tasks. In an attempt to enforce his rule and local loyalty, Charles I, took as hostages the sons of local noblemen. This created a general discontent ... did it really, you surprise me. Anyway everything about an article whose introductory sentences require close reading of another article for context is terrible. Somebody who isn't me should definitely fix this. Card Zero (talk) 08:28, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I am satisfied with this answer. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 08:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Contingent Elections in the US House of Representatives

I have been trying to determine how Trump might interfere with the election, and it seems clear that he is aiming for a contingent election in the House of Representatives. This would occur if neither candidate received 270 or more electoral votes. I assume that the procedure would be to stall or prevent the certificates of the electors to be sent to Congress. I am a little uncertain on how certificates could be blocked or stalled from the states, and I have received conflicting answers. How could this occur, and is there any legal remedy to force certificates to be sent from the slate of electors? 2600:8807:C306:A200:48E:DBF5:EC65:9227 (talk) 01:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022 was passed to avoid some of these scenarios. Under the US Constitution, the state legislatures have ultimate authority over the electoral college votes of each state, but if legislators made last-minute procedural changes AFTER an election whose result they didn't like, that would be very problematic (the Constitution also forbids "ex post facto laws"... AnonMoos (talk) 02:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid there is little (other than the threat of imprisonment) stopping a state's governor from certifying a different slate of electors than those actually elected. Another scary scenario is that the chaos in a state is so overwhelming that no one has any certainty about the winner when December 17 arrives, so it is unknown who the electors are that should meet that day. --Lambiam 12:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yes, there is little, other than his own convictions, his loyalty to the Republic, to stop him, although, such compunctions are marred by the constant fearmongering of legacy media about the 'fascist' trump, the 'threat' to the democratic system, which, as it would seem to any observer without the trained eyes of NYT columnists, who refer to Sumy as a village, who raise alarm over Chinese 'pillers' on the Nepalese border, who, who, it's incredible, you know,

I am sure that plenty of happy accidents, organized by our dear friends in Langley, would ensue, precluding any such eventuality

but you shouldn't worry, because you know that we will carry in the states which Howard Dean famously enumerated, and in yet more, such that even before the sun has descended beyond the Aleutians no contention will remain 130.74.59.162 (talk) 15:03, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't know this. You evidently possess a secret source of information to which I have no access. --Lambiam 17:45, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Mississippi IP's secret source is probably QAnon. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My sources are Nate Silver, Allan Lichtman, the Times, and the Post 130.74.59.32 (talk) 22:17, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And QAnon. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

bless your heart 130.74.59.32 (talk) 22:44, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The question assumes facts not in evidence. Why do you think Trump is aiming to send the election into the House? I wouldn't be surprised if that's a backup plan somewhere in his group, but at the moment he seems to have at least a fair shot at just winning the Electoral College outright, which seems much more straightforward and less fraught. --Trovatore (talk) 22:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 30

Is ביתדוד a partial reconstruction in the Tel Dan stele?

This subtler one still seems to have light colorant...

I haven't seen another inscription where they color in letters for legibility...

...Other than in copies like this Siloam inscription reproduction

I thought I'd read the w was an inferred and reconstructed letter in bitdwd but that's not mentioned on its page. I may be mistaken. What was the first paper to include the Davidic conclusion? Are the images in the Wikimedia category reproductions? The text is inscribed with unusual clarity, including the pertinent.

Temerarius (talk) 20:25, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say the 2nd image is a photo from a museum. I don't think the highlighting looks like it was added by the user, it looks like it was a photo of a photo from a different museum exhibit than the one in the first photo. Andre🚐 20:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you're thinking of the Mesha Stele, which has also been claimed to refer to the House of David? In that case some of the letters are damaged and have to be reconstructed. --Amble (talk) 21:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://i.postimg.cc/ZnGX3LKQ/image.png

[c016-2] Germond, Philippe; Livet, Jacques (2001). An Egyptian Bestiary. New York, N.Y: Thames & Hudson. ISBN 0-500-51059-8.

[1]

[2]