Talk:Briahna Joy Gray

Brie's recent eye-roll moment

While Brie's recent behaviour is abhorrent, it isn't discussed widely enough to be included on this page. In fact, I don't think it's been mentioned so far outside of Twitter. Therefore, I removed the content, as there wasn't any secondary source backing it up. If the situation changes, please feel free to include it. BeŻet (talk) 17:34, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree with @BeŻet:. Unless independent sources give this any coverage, it's WP:UNDUE for inclusion. Schazjmd (talk) 18:46, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

"Her recent behaviour is abhorrent".

That is not a statement of fact. Her reason for making the statement is very valid in the context of the conversation that was being had.

Her statement has been clipped to remove the nuance of the conversation and her overall concern as to how the US chooses to allocate funding to one foreign cause versus another.

I have not seen anyone address the concerns she was raising. (Which is the point of what she was saying. CompliantStan (talk) 03:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@CompliantStan: Her statement has been clipped - **she** did the clipping, and she even pinned her tweet with that clip. And if you haven't seen anyone address the concerns she was raising, there are thousands of people online you can read, for example highlighting that all the other events she mentioned combined have had a lot smaller death toll compared to the situation in Ukraine. BeŻet (talk) 12:04, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

What nuance is there? She rolled her eyes and denied that ethnic cleansing is taking place, she treats acts of genocide as charity. There is no legitimate "nuance" to be found here, it's unambiguously evil. 69.158.89.35 (talk) 11:44, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

She rolled her eyes with regard to the claimed necessity of US involvement, pointing out that US involvement is not as claimed based humanitarian reason but to further its geopolitical agenda. A geopolitical agenda she personally thinks is not worth to spend resources on. One might disagree with that assessment but there is hardly anything evil and pretty much the same goes with the supposed antisemitism accusation further down below. This is exactly why we have these Wikipedia policies to summarize notable and reliable external sources to keep editors from dragging their individual views of person or their personal moral panic about somebody into Wikipedia articles.--Kmhkmh (talk) 01:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles don't document everything a person said or did; they summarize what independent reliable sources say about her. Schazjmd (talk) 15:39, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

It's now well summarized and this is a high profile issue she has chosen to engage in. It is therefore meaningful. Helpingtoclarify (talk) 18:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Why are these all stamped 2022? 2601:18F:801:1D20:D074:D374:6ACF:E1C2 (talk) 15:16, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

she was just fired

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1798845475509956743 2601:18B:400:48F0:3AC4:3019:8687:DB96 (talk) 23:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

she didnt care about situation about ukrainan children were abducted by russia's government and rebloeg Jake Sheldis's tweet by --Sunuraju (talk) 12:38, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Antisemitism

This article needs to cover Gray's denial of sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas against Jewish women on October 7, 2023. Gray made abhorrent denials of the proven sexual violence and murder of women, and claimed that the women should give testimony. Women hostages living in tunnels are incapable of giving testimony, as are the hundreds of dead victims from the 10/7 attacks. Her antisemitism needs to be exposed and documented for the world to remember as her legacy. Mneidich (talk) 01:10, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Surely you have some WP:RS that would demonstrate WP:DUE? – Muboshgu (talk) 01:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

It's right here in RS and in her own tweets. This is not debatable.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ex-bernie-sanders-aide-slammed-saying-accounts-israeli-women-raped-hamas-zionist-propaganda

@Muboshguis it your contention she did not make these remarks or just that this isn't significant enough to include? Helpingtoclarify (talk) 18:19, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

That's not RS. WP:FOXNEWSPOLITICS. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Plenty more

https://jewishinsider.com/2024/01/the-hills-online-show-rising-falls-prey-to-hosts-anti-israel-commentary/

https://bnnbreaking.com/politics/briahna-joy-gray-sparks-controversy-with-comments-on-alleged-rapes-by-hamas-terrorists/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/12/08/hamas-rape-weapon-israel-progressive-women-silent/71823415007/

Are you contending she didn't try to deny rape occured by Hamas? (well documented, she tweeted it) or that it isn't important to highlight (see last link, the prime minister of Israel called out people perpetuating denialism). Helpingtoclarify (talk) 20:25, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I am contending that we are an encyclopedia and not a newspaper. WP:NOTEVERYTHING is encyclopedic content. Some random tweet she fired off that set off opinion columns on the other side and then died off are in that category. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment: This conversation is related to WP:PIA, which allows only extended-confirmed editors to make edits in the topic area. Wracking ^talk! 16:29, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

there was a debate between Joy Gray and Briahna Wu and a clash over their options on Israeli-Hamas War by --Sunuraju (talk) 14:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Brihana shared post from white supermancist Jake Sheldis by --Sunuraju (talk) 04:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Firing

The Firing of Gray does of course belong in the article. However the current description is imho not appropriate if it relies on a primary source only. Since the "eye rolling" and "interruption" are bit of an interpretation of primary source by wikipedian which is a no-go. Such a description would to the very least require a proper secondary source making such an interpretation. Also it might be prudent to wait for a few days at least before assessing reasons for her firing.--Kmhkmh (talk) 12:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

P.S.: Just seeing now that Times of Israel is later referenced, which contains that description as well, nevertheless I doubt that the short opinion in there is a good source either.--Kmhkmh (talk) 13:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Grammatical correction to be done

it's written

During end of the discussion the woman said she hoped Gray would "I really hope that you specifically will believe women when they say they have been raped".

This is poorly constructed it should be written

By the end of the discussion the woman said: "I really hope that you [Gray] specifically will believe women when they say they have been raped".

Diderot1 (talk) 13:06, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Done. Andykatib (talk) 02:36, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Sentence about rapes is short and underrepresents events

"An UN report found "reasonable grounds to believe conflict-related sexual violence occurred" in two locations, but also reported that other allegations of sexual violations were unfounded"

This is far from what is detailed on this subject on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel 68.173.116.131 (talk) 15:58, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 June 2024

add far left to description as she supports anti israel rhetoric

change Briahna Joy Gray (born August 15, 1985) is an American political commentator to Briahna Joy Gray (born August 15, 1985) is an American far-left political commentator 173.72.3.91 (talk) 03:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: See WP:BLPSTYLE. That label would require multiple high-quality sources. — hako9 (talk) 22:36, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

References

recent/current edit conflict/war over firing and Israel views

The 2 paragraphs essentially dealing with her firing and over which there was a recent edit war need to be overhauled imho. While everything uses proper sources, the sources are not appropiately evaluated and some of the content seems to be of questionable relevance for biographic article in the first place. In particular:

• Why does her participation in some discussion forum in May 2024 matter for her firing? Is there any source claiming it mattered for her firing? If not I don't see any good reason why it should be mentioned in the article at all and is not needed to describe her as somewhat hostile attitude to Israel as there are other sources for that which are directly related to her firing. Note that media pundit/commentators attend a lot of events and those individual events are mostly not noteworthy in detail for their biographies.
• If one wants to mentioned the May event nevertheless, it is probably best in to do that in separate paragraph from the firing, to maintain chronological order and because relation to the firing seems speculative at best. It is also not clear to me why Ritchie Torres' criticism is included here or why it should matter. Now if it was criticism from nationally well known major political figure or academic, then it might make sense to include it, but I don't see Torres fitting that bill. Another issue is the use of the New Republic article only for a quote of Gray while completely ignoring its context, which is explicitly described in that article. Namely that Gray was constantly being (racially) heckled during that discussion. In other words either we include the quote with appropriate context or we don't include it at all.

--Kmhkmh (talk) 01:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

The bomb remark should be separated from the section about her being sacked. Afaict, neither she nor The Hill have connected the event to her sacking. The Haaretz source does mention Gray's bomb comment at the bottom of the article about her sacking but does not connect the two events. Ritchie Torres' criticism has been misplaced since it was about the bomb remark, not Gray's comment about Hamas. Torres describes himself as a "pro-Israel progressive" so his comment is not unexpected. Not sure about noteworthiness. Regarding Gray's bomb comment, I agree that, if is included, then the context of the comment also needs to be included. Burrobert (talk) 10:49, 18 September 2024 (UTC)