Talk:Himyar

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This contribution is out of touch with the main epigraphic, historic and archaeological sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.7.102.173 (talk) 13:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

How does such an article get into Wikipedia? - so out of step with the literature and largely without documentation. I.e. is it a kingdom or just a conferderation? Also contains religious polemic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyule (talk • contribs) 09:29, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Please remove the relief of the Himyarite knight previously from the Zafar Museum. it is plagiarized from heidICON SKVO Zafar. Azd0815 (talk) 19:44, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

According to A Historical Atlas of the Jewish People, edited by Eli Barnavi:

"Some Christians regard this [anti-Christian warfare] as part of a Jewish attempt to dominate the world. Yet the kingdom was not Jewish, and its monotheism was but an expression of Himyarite independence."

This same book also mentions that the war was fought in the name of "The Merciful One", which suggests to me that Himyar monotheism was more proto-Islamic then Jewish. Can anyone out there back some of this up with a non-POV source?

The deity named in Christian and Judaising/Jewish Texts is Rachmana/n, the merciful. Summary: C. Robin in the periodical Arabia 1, 2004. Himyarite monotheism was Christian and Jewish whereby the nature of the latter is a question of definition since the Jews in Himyarite Arabia appear unaware of the Talmud. Basic attributes are also lacking. p.y.

I'm taking out "if he was not simply Judaising" because the sentence is nonsensical.--Dr.Worm 03:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Conquests

Where do those conquest dates come from? I'm researching the Aksumite king GDRT right now, and during his reign (c. 200-230), Himyar, Saba, Qataban, and Hadramaut were all independent states (he was allied with all of the others against Himyar at one point), though Hadramaut was conquered by Saba.
ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 06:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Thats a good question. I have had the same problem, look here [1]. Do you have good books? or are you searching from Internet? It seems to me that the archeologist don't have themselves clue about the dates. Jidan 07:51, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Structuring and "westernization"

As it seems the article was heavily edited on the 27th january 2008. The result was a loss of connections to other articles on the subject and other languages. I dont think this was done on purpose and have thus reconstructed some of the lost information and links. All in all the article seemed to have a structure that had a more islamic approach to history and a very personal style. As an article in the english language WP I have restructured it more to western style. Yet I have tried to keep the information, such as references to the Koran, and do not think it a good idea to simply delete things. The section of the tribal history may seem irritating for western eyes to be part of the history of a kingdom, rather expecting lists of kings and battles, yet for others it may be a very important aspect of history. I strongly recommend to keep this information (somewhere). I have left some of the new paragraphs untouched and have not checked the sources. Please would someone knowledgeble look at the article and edit it with care. --T.woelk (talk) 12:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The section on history has no cohesion with Old South Arabian sources. The names, for example are not standard transliteration of Sabaean ones (Abu-Kariba, Zifr, Redan). Unimportant episodes take the place of missing real ones. Not well written. The dating 115 B.C. until 300 A.D. does not correspond to the accepted initial date of the Himyarite calendar in 110 B.C. (F. de Blois, The date of the "martyrs of Nagran", Arabian Archaeology and Epigraphy 1, 1980, 110-128). The article is on Himyar, but the erratic King list contains most Sabaean ones (see Bafaqih, L'Unification du yemen antique. La lutte entre Saba, Himyart et la Hadramaut du 1er au IIIeme siecle de l'ere chrétienne (Paris 1990). The article is about Himyar, but shows mostly Sabaean art. The characteristic Raydan series of Himyaritic coins are not even shown. Someone radically reworked the text and emasculated it. Given the spontaneous nature of the endless editing, I see no reason (as excavator of Zafar) to add what will not surviv the next editing. Pyule (talk) 14:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

The coin which is reproduced is probably not Himyarite. It is probably Sabaean to judge from the iconography. PYule —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.255.207.250 (talk) 16:37, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Himyarite language

The section Language mentions a Semitic, but non-Sayhadic Himyarite language – which, unlike the Sayhadic languages, survived until the 10th century. That such a language really existed is confirmed by the article Himjarische Sprache in the German Wikipedia. However, Himyarite language simply redirects to Sabaean language. The reason is that the Himyarites usually wrote in Sabaean, not their native language. The reader who does not know this is bound to be puzzled by the redirect. We clearly need an article on the native Himyarite language to replace the redirect. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:25, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll translate the German article.--Schreiber91 (talk) 17:27, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Who is the guy in the photo?

This page has a photo captioned ”Emir Mubarak ibn Saleh al-Duwaily Al-Awlaki”. Who is he? He is not mentioned elsewhere on the page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.178.248 (talk) 21:50, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, i'm removing him.GreyShark (dibra) 18:04, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Removed by a drive-by remover of uncited material

This period witnessed a lot of disorder and turmoil. The great many foreign and civil wars cost the people of the Yemen their independence. During this era, the Aksumites invaded Tihāmah and Najrān for the first time in the year 340, making use of the constant intra-tribal conflict of Hamdan and Ḥimyar. The Aksumite occupation of Tihāmah and Najrān lasted until 378, whereafter Yemen expelled the Aksumites. After this the Ma'rib Dam's last great flood (450 or 451) weakened Ḥimyar further and led to its collapse.

Johnbod (talk) 20:28, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

There's a big mistake here, They did not convert to Judaism

They did not convert to Judaism. They only supported the Jews. They adored the Jews, and believed in the God of the Jews, but they did not observe the Sabbath and did not observe the commandments of the Torah. Therefore, they turned to God as "the God of the Jews" because they did not see themselves as Jews.

I guess the right thing to say is that there was no Jews in Arabia, until now no one can find any Hebrew script in Saudi Arabia or in Yemen so I know for fact that their religion was Rahmanism not Judaism but most of historians ignore that for some reason SharabSalam (talk) 16:48, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Do not add unsourced content

Either there is a source or no addition. I am suffering searching for sources to draw a map of Himyar, however, its like impassible to do that but I know that Tihamah which nowadays includes Asir, Jizan and Hejaz were part of Himyar as their titles tells us "King of Saba and Dhu Raydan and Tihamat blah blah etc.. I dont see the map includes these areas also Shammar Yahar'ish invaded Hadramout and took what is now called Oman so thats also another point. Plus its an own work SharabSalam (talk) 13:38, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Also the map is not a fact so it definitely needs to be sourced not just an own work or drawing just selective areas where you think Himyar was SharabSalam (talk) 13:44, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Jewish monarchy

This section is a little muddled chronologically. I also think it is important to add the role the Byzantine Empire played in ending the rule of the monarchy. The History of Ethiopia page covers the topic well. TheWarOfArt (talk) 03:19, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

The name

The name of the kingdom is not Himyar. Himyar was the name of the nation that established the kingdom of dhu-Raydān. The article suggests that the name of the kingdom was Himyar. It also mixes traditions with history.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 11:01, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Problem is that the article name is also historically wrong. It should only be Himyarites.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 11:07, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I will work on this later.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 11:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I can't move the article to Himyarites. Wikipedia is not allowing me. It says there is already a page, but it's a redirect not a page.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 11:20, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

The last name for this article is

Hemyari Mohammed Ali Joke (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:46, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

The correct name

The correct name for this article is

Hemyari Kingdom

Mohammed Ali Joke (talk)

or Hemyar Mohammed Ali Joke (talk) 12:48, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I see that you've moved the article in accordance with this claim. But have you got any sources that it is the standard English name? WP articles follow the standard English language name (see WP:COMMONNAME) and every single one currently cited by this article uses "Himyarite." Nor is this the normal transliteration of Arabic used on WP (see here: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Arabic#Transliteration) Furius (talk) 16:53, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

map

How is the Himyarite Kingdom of this size, despite the existence of an inscription of a Himyarite king named Abu Karb Asaad in the middle of the Arabian Peninsula or Najd, and he talks about his invasion and control over it (the name of the Dawadimi inscription or نفس الدوادمي) 2001:8F8:1861:CE22:E951:B559:2D76:F5D8 (talk) 18:27, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

End of the Himyarite Kingdom

The end of the Himyarite kingdom of Yemen is either 525 CE, when it becomes a Aksumite vassal, or 578 CE when it stops being a vassal and is directly ruled by a Persian governor. I don't think 570 can be considered the date of the disappearance of the Himyarite kingdom as there is still an Himyarite king in power; 570 CE just sees a shift from Aksumite overlordship to Persian overlordship. Patrick.N.L (talk) 05:00, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

The history is correct. After 525, Himyar was independent and not affiliated with Aksum. It was ruled by a Christian Himyarite dynasty. Samifa’ Ashwa’ and Abraha Ibn al-Sabah launched campaigns against Aksum and were not subordinate to the Persians, because the Sasanian empire’s occupation of Himyar is incorrect. All of these were sources and superstitions from the Abbasid era. The kingdom disintegrated into states after 574 Y000zygyy (talk) 22:05, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 January 2024

1 change request Replace the map with this one File:Himyarite kingdom.png

2001:16A2:C2C4:470:11FC:536F:D87F:DD6 (talk) 18:51, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

References

Hello! If you mean replacing the one at the top of the infobox, then I don't see any reason to change it, because it contradicts the previous version and I don't see how the sources you provided here are relevant to the change. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 14:42, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Greetings! I see you’ve responded but the Himyarite domain wasn’t as small as this as they themselves had inscriptions on nejd and it’s even described below on Wikipedia’s article , the reason I request this is due to the claim that at 525 The Himyarites Have reached their territorial height which doesn’t show the actual map nor the actual info the Himyarites in 514 had multiple Campaigns in central Arabia mostly known for Abu kariba’s Hasan And ma’ad Yakrib’s campaigns In which nejd subjugated on 400 ad Hasan led a campaign into Nejd according to the inscription Maʾsal 1 and also he is widely known for The mass genocides of the Jadis tribe Riyadh, the Old City: From Its Origins Until the 1950s - Page 46 if the shown borders are true how could the Himyarites possibly pass through the northern Arabs in a possible 700+ KM’s route

His campaigns are a lot known and you can easily see plenty of books about him just by typing hasan name in books and that’s it ! 212.215.232.176 (talk) 20:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Why

Why is this extra pritected í ám intrested. Who vandalised it? Blackmamba31248 (talk) 00:30, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

CE/AD

The article should be edited to be consistent in using either "AD" or "CE". Specifically, the map at the top of the article uses "AD" whereas the rest of the article uses "CE". WagtailJohn (talk) 17:57, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 27 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved as proposed, except Himyarite Kingdom moved to Himyar per WP:CONCISE. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

---

• Himyarite Kingdom → Himyarite kingdom
• Harla Kingdom → Harla kingdom
• Old Pahang Kingdom → Old Pahang kingdom
• Mataram Kingdom → Mataram kingdom

– Not proper names, but rather descriptions of ancient kingdoms. Like most other ancient kingdoms, not typically capped in sources. Dicklyon (talk) 22:27, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support, as per rules standard capitalisation practice DervotNum4 (talk) 03:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS. See ngrams for Himyarite kingdom and Mataram kingdom - not consistently capped in sources. Finding sources for Old Pahang K|kingdom or even Pahang K|kingdom is difficult. Google scholar gives no actual hits but JSTOR gives this for Riau-Johore-Pahang kingdom [sic]. Given that kingdom is a descriptive term, there is an absence of sourcing to indicate it should be capitalised here. The Google scholar search for Harla kingdom returns few hits but it is predominantly lowercase. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:50, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom Abo Yemen✉ 15:36, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• Himyar redirects to Himyarite Kingdom, so is there any reason not to move it to the shortened title? Srnec (talk) 17:26, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

  I support this per WP:CONCISE. Thanks for noticing it Abo Yemen✉ 17:42, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

  I think I don't. It appears to me that Himyar was the name of the guy that the kingdom was named for, not commonly an alternative name for the kingdom. I see Himyar kingdom and Himyar dynasty more for that. But show me if I'm wrong. Dicklyon (talk) 05:41, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  Himyar can work as a short form of the name just like how Saudi Arabia is commonly referred to as "Saudi" or how the former Quaiti Sultanate is referred to as just Qu'aiti, both of which are named after people. We call it Himyar in arabic too Abo Yemen✉ 06:26, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  "Himyar" is the title of the articles in the Oxford Encyclopedia of Archaeology in the Near East, Oxford Dictionary of Late Antiquity, Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium and Brill's New Pauly. —Srnec (talk) 20:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  OK then, sounds like a consensus for Himyar. Dicklyon (talk) 23:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.