Talk:Yahya Sinwar

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 April 2024

The opening sentence of the third paragraph is hard to read. I propose the following rewording, which does not change the factual information but makes it easier for the reader to parse. The current wording is:

"For orchestrating the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians he considered to be collaborators in 1989, he was sentenced to four life sentences by Israel, of which he served 22 years until his release among 1,026 others in a 2011 prisoner exchange for Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit."

I suggest:

"In 1982, Sinwar orchestrated the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians he considered to be collaborators. He was sentenced to four life sentences by Israel. He served 22 years until he and 1,026 others were released in 2011 in exchange for Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit."

Thanks, Opolito (talk) 17:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

The wording is currently even more confusing. I hope it gets fixed soon. Seaporbs (talk) 12:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Last edit

@האופה: "is thought" refers to the location, while the human shield claim is indeed still stated in WP voice. Plus you have only added one theory and ignored the two rest. The very existence of three theories is indicative of unreliability. Please stop edit warring and seek consensus and demonstrate verifiability for the information you are trying to add. Three Israeli websites are obviously not independent nor reliable for this information. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@האופה: Still waiting for your elaborations on your edit. Makeandtoss (talk) 15:19, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

If you have concerns regarding the sources, you should start a discussion on WP:RSN. We better evaluate sources based on their sticking to factual reporting rather than their country of origin, so their location in Israel is irrelevant to this conversation. If you're familiar with other theories of Sinwar's current whereabouts which other reliable sources support you're welcome to add them as well. HaOfa (talk) 17:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

@האופה: Now how WP works. Per WP:BURDEN, it is the responsibility of the inserter of the material to demonstrate verifiability. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:27, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Lede

@Thegreatrebellion: What value does this sentence add to the lede as a summary of the body? " He is regarded as one of the most prominent leaders of Hamas, alongside Ismail Haniyeh, Khaled Mashal, Mohammed Deif and Marwan Issa." Sinwar is already described as the organization's head in GS. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:12, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Yahya Sinwar has been appointed Head of Hamas' Political Bureau

I cannot edit this article. Someone make this change, thanks! XAP14x (talk) 18:05, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

No he hasnt. The sourcing I've seen say Muhammad Ismail Darwish has been appointed interim head of the political bureau. nableezy - 18:07, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Take that back. nableezy - 21:32, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Brain surgery?

There are conflicting reports about where and when he had brain surgery. Our article cites a 2024 NYT article, that says 2004 at Soroka Medical Center.[1] This source [2] says 2008 at Assaf Harofeh Medical Center. This source[3] says 2004 at Shamir Medical Center (the new name of Assaf Harofeh Medical Center).

Because of the conflicts by reliable sources, there is no authoritative source. At best we can report what the sources say ie. according to X it was here, according to Y it was there. In situations like this, older sources closer to the event are more reliable, but since he was not a major figure at the time, it may not have been reported at all, and only recently is it being reported as Israeli doctors saving his life. -- GreenC 22:29, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Not a "definitively reliable" source, but here's a quote from an interview with Tat-Gundar Betty Lahat, who was head intelligence officer of the Israeli Prison Service and commander of the prison where Sinwar was incarcerated. Excerpt from Israeli publication Walla, translated using Google Translate:

"He was terribly afraid. When he started having headaches, we sent him from Nafha prison in the south to Ayalon prison, and later they discovered a tumor near his brain, and the man just fell apart, because it was a very violent type of cancer. We brought him to Assaf Harofeh Hospital, and he underwent surgery to remove it [the growth]. I came to see him, 'You see, the state of Israel saved your life.' He said, 'No one explains to me what my situation is, not even my family knows if this is the end of me.'

"So I called the doctor who explained to him that the tumor had been removed and currently no metastases are seen. But Sanwar continued to be frightened. Every time he saw me he asked, 'What will happen to me, the tumor will not return?' , and senior officials from the Palestinian Authority asked to visit him and were allowed to. First, the Minister of Prisoners' Affairs Sufyan Abu Zeida arrived, and when he left the visit I asked him, 'Well, what, the hero cried for you too?', and he said, 'Yes, there is nothing to be done, Sanwar is afraid for his life.'"

So, according to the head intelligence officer of the Israeli Prison Service and commander of the prison where Sinwar was incarcerated, Sinwar was operated on at Assaf Haforeh Hospital/Shamir Medical Center (where he allegedly visited him). Mooonswimmer 23:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

That's a pretty good source, from someone who was there and in a position of authority. It's the same material noted in [4] which gave a date of 2008. Was it 2008? Or 2004 per NYT? -- GreenC 02:50, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Objective language

In this excerpt:

"Despite his leadership among prisoners, Sinwar remained humble, sharing cooking duties and other chores with junior inmates as well as making knafeh for fellow prisoners, fostering camaraderie."

The phrase "Sinwar remained humble," should be removed to maintain a sense of objectivity.

The actions speak for themselves and presenting them on their own is enough to illustrate the point. The clause "Sinwar remained humble," could give the reader a sense of partiality. Afw35 (talk) 03:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I also find the the use of the word snitch a case of not-objective and colloqial language.I would assume one would use informant or collaborators as used before?

"Israeli authorities suspected him of ordering the beheadings of two suspected snitches." 2A00:6020:B297:B700:AC6F:8BEB:7702:70F4 (talk) 06:46, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't find "he remained humble" to be a very subjective phrase here. It seems like it is just a basic explanation of facts. "Snitches" is an issue because of its informality, not because it is impartial. "Informant" or "Collaborator" is just as objective as "snitches" its just more formal and appropriate. Jdftba (talk) 17:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

The phrasing is in the cited source, so it was matching it. Whoever removed it was wrong to do so and I have restored it while avoiding wiki voice. Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 06:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

He is Alive

He is reportedly alive and not dead. According to reports, he contacted ceasefire deal mediators. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 13:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:ECR
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Yeah, He is alive. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 07:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC) Not anymore 87.68.132.68 (talk) 15:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Another one bites the dust~ 2A10:8001:8597:0:5EBC:FC19:C86:3535 (talk) 15:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @2A10:8001:8597:0:5EBC:FC19:C86:3535 What do you mean by that? BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 15:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @87.68.132.68 It's being checked. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 15:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @BangladeshiEditorInSylhet: non extended confirmed editors are not supposed to discuss the subject, so please don't respond to them as it makes it difficult to remove their edits. Thanks. M.Bitton (talk) 15:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton Ok, I just respond to comments like this, From now on, I'll ignore them even if I am right. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @BangladeshiEditorInSylhet: rather than ignoring them, I suggest you remove them. M.Bitton (talk) 16:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton Sure. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton I'll remember to do that from now on. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @BangladeshiEditorInSylhet: in case you're not aware of it, the only thing that they are allowed to do is start an edit request, so don't remove those. M.Bitton (talk) 16:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton Ok, I'm now aware of that, Thanks for teaching me. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024

His death is confirmed by DNA request 2A00:A041:1C1D:CF00:F455:23D1:5979:A47F (talk) 14:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

The man is dead. It's confirmed. ZeroByter (talk) 14:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Yep, can also confirm. Svsivard (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Is there a source with the DNA claim? Been trying to find one to no avail so far. Procyon117 (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

There's no source because no such test was done yet (or at least, its results were not published). There is no official source claiming his death yet. Hopefully soon. רון18 (talk) 14:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Mhm. It's only a matter of time at this point. Procyon117 (talk) 14:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Of course it's a matter of time. But the body was recovered from the ruins only recently, and we are waiting for an official confirmation. I don't say it's not true, I just say it has not been confirmed yet by any official source. רון18 (talk) 14:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I have seen the pictures, and they do resemble him. The corpse is surrounded by idf and it means they have access to it, we’ll wait for the dna tests but it’s likely The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 14:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

There is also a front teeth / ear comparison of the corpse to the living person, they are identical. Sources are Telegram / X. Jouk (talk) 14:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Until a reliable source(s) comfirm his death. Wår (talk) 15:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Some live news blogs seem to consider it confirmed now - CNN says Israel has confirmed to American officials that Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar is dead according to initial DNA testing, a person familiar with the matter said., WaPo similar, etc. We could wait for a more clearly-reliable source though. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 16:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Its obviously reliably sourced that Israel says he was killed, but no source I see is saying that as a fact in their own voice, only saying Israel says so. nableezy - 17:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Youre not making any sense. Israel said he was dead. Thats a reliable source. 31.3.74.166 (talk) 06:56, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not an edit request. M.Bitton (talk) 15:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024 (2)

Update death date to 17th of October 2024 2A0D:6FC0:7BE:C500:91F7:83B8:33B0:9D96 (talk) 14:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 15:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

The BBC is now reporting that his death has been confirmed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy94zdd0nxlt

Did he survive?

Now resolved. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 20:25, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Are there any sources to confirm that he is still alive? TheLibyanGuy (talk) 16:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Hamas hasn't confirmed yet Omani8678 (talk) 16:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Hamas might not ever confirm it. Every major newspaper in the world is going to believe the DNA analysis by Israel and confirm his death, within 24hrs. It's a done thing, as far as Wikipedia rules are concerned. Those attempting to stop the removal of BLP status will cause a lot of needless disruption. -- GreenC 17:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC) GreenC and other editors, please be aware that WP:BLP policy applies for some time after a person has died. Usually six months, sometimes longer. Cullen328 (talk) 19:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Cullen, BLP says that it can apply for a period of time after a death, not that it automatically does.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Specifically, BLP says "Generally, this policy does not apply to material concerning people who are confirmed dead by reliable sources. The only exception would be for people who have recently died, in which case the policy can extend for an indeterminate period beyond the date of death—six months, one year, two years at the outside. Such extensions would apply particularly to contentious or questionable material about the subject that has implications for their living relatives and friends, such as in the case of a possible suicide or particularly gruesome crime." In other words, the default is removal of BLP status and there have to be circumstances that dictate retention of BLP status.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC) what exactly about BLP would you like to be freed from following here? nableezy - 21:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC) I think the better question is why does Sinwar need BLP protection. Wehwalt (talk) 21:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC) BLP protection? the must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States, to this policy, and to Wikipedia's three core content policies really bothering you here? nableezy - 21:37, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Which of those is bothering you that you feel that this article should be treated specially? Because BLP makes it clear that additional protection is an exception, not a rule. He is dead and beyond being helped or hurt by anything we may say about him. There are times when we give additional protections, but they are generally for the protection of innocent victims and their families, and so have no obvious application here. Wehwalt (talk) 21:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC) I tend to think all biographies should follow the advice of BLP, that being to write soberly and with adherence to the best sources and maintain a NPOV. Do you feel differently? Or is there some other stricture you would like to be freed from here? nableezy - 22:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC) All that sounds quite reasonable to me, but that's not the issue here. We change living=yes to living=no as a matter of routine, as we did for Mitzi Gaynor today, here. Is there a reason why Mr. Sinwar should be treated differently from Ms. Gaynor in this regard? Anything else can be settled through normal editing routine and discussion. Wehwalt (talk) 22:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC) What newspaper has said as a fact that Sinwar is dead? Every one I see says Israel has confirmed it and they attribute it to Israel. nableezy - 17:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @Nableezy Ok point, We need to find more sources. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 14:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC) What reliable newspaper is saying he might still be alive? Being attributed to Israel is not a problem since they are the only one's with the corpse. If you are saying the Israeli government is a generally unreliable source, you should start a WP:RSN - but it will come across as POINTY and disruptive. -- GreenC 14:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC) No government is a reliable source, and this is no longer relevant as news sources have said in their own voice he is dead (and so has Hamas at this point). But what you and others were doing here, prior to any source reporting it as a fact, was wrong. I dont really care enough to deal with the bs that would come from editing this page rn, so I’ll just take my leave. nableezy - 16:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024 (3)

Put was instead of is because he died Liad1456 (talk) 16:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

BBC confirms death:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy94zdd0nxlt - Tim O'Doherty (talk) 16:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support topic is no longer a BLP -- GreenC 16:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  NY Times is reporting "Hamas Leader is Dead". BBC is reporting the death. Is there any case for not removing the "Biography articles of Living People" category from this page? Wehwalt (talk) 17:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Especially since the editnotice on the article is saying "This article is currently being heavily edited because its subject has recently died." Unless Sinwar is the Middle Eastern version of Schrodinger's cat, I suggest we go one way or the other on this. Wehwalt (talk) 17:37, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  They are reporting Israel* confirms his death. nableezy - 17:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  NY Times is saying "Hamas Leader is Dead". They are certainly capable of printing "Israel Reports Sinwar Dead" or some such, but they're saying he's dead, taking whatever risk of a Dewey-Beats-Truman reversal there may be and putting in all their chips anyway.

  So what are you saying? That we should remove the date of death and the section on his death, not to mention the edit notice? We should follow the sources, not keep a foot on both sides of the water, and remove the category. Wehwalt (talk) 17:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  WP:HEADLINES. Their actual stories are reporting the IDF saying he is dead. And yes, we should be removing dates of death until sources report is a fact and not as an IDF claim. nableezy - 17:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  NY Times just printed his obituary. I think we should go by what the RS we use think of the information they have. In this case, they are willing to make definite statements. You are second-guessing them because you don't like where you think their information came from. That's not enough. Wehwalt (talk) 18:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, this would be a source putting it in their own words that he is dead. That resolves the issue for me. The earlier linked BBC story, and the earlier NYT articles, all said Israel confirms. I dont really know why you think at that point following the sources meant not attributing the claim to Israel, but thats a curiosity that will have to remain unanswered I suppose. As far as your claim about what I said, I dont think that remotely resembles anything like reality, but go off Wehwalt. nableezy - 18:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  As you wish. We can remove the "living people" cat, in your view, then? Wehwalt (talk) 18:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  I think I already answered that, but with the NYT obit yes that's fine with me. nableezy - 18:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Done. Thank you. Wehwalt (talk) 18:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Denied/Confirmed by Hamas

"Denied by Hamas" "Hamas also confirmed his death." Pick one. -- Veggies (talk) 12:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Change from Militant to Militiaman, Militant feels like a narrative supportive of IDF, More sources needed also

I suppose changing some words. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 14:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Militiaman has a positive connotation in order to stay neutral militant is more appropriate. Militant does not imply an Israeli narrative, while militiaman does very much evoke the image of a citizen taking up arms not an individual leading an armed pseeudo state faction. Hamas is not a militia it is an organised group of professional militants. 2A02:3035:E77:2323:D9C1:7065:A504:C38C (talk) 15:11, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

He's widely seen as a terrorist, just as Osama bin Laden was connected with 9/11, then Sinwar was the mastermind of Oct7th. Mathmo ^Talk 23:11, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mathmo - who saw him as terrorist? only the occupiers seeing him as such.. free people like me saw him as freedom fighter.

@31.3.74.166 That was before he was claimed Killed, There were multiple claims that he was killed even a few weeks ago, where he was found alive. You want proof? Here's the Proof, Wow I am not suitable to discuss these subjects on Wikipedia? Then, what about you? He is now dead but there were claims that he died before which were refuted. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 09:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Better Picture Please

Can we please get a better picture for the top of this article? There exists many photos of him that aren’t incredibly grainy. 2601:602:8C81:C690:EDFF:3604:E9EA:41B (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Was wondering about the same, but on looking closer commons doesn't have any, which probably indicates that there are none in the public domain. This is understandable, as it's not like any freelance photographer/journalist had much chance of getting close to him, and Israel/Hamas pictures probably aren't under a free license. If you do find some, feel free to upload them to commons, and to add them to the article. — Alien  3
3 3 17:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Copyright issues make it hard to upload such pictures, many get taken down The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 11:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

It appears that a better photo has been found and replaced the old one, thank you. Jdftba (talk) 06:05, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 October 2024

In the "death" section, it's worth mentioning that the holder of the UNWRA passport was identified to have been alive and seeking asylum in Egypt since April; he did not die alongside Sinwar as social media is speculating. This was confirmed by UNWRA comissioner-general Philippe Lazzarini.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/unrwa-teachers-passport-was-found-on-sinwar-its-holder-is-reported-to-be-in-egypt/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/18/passport-unwra-teacher-found-body-yahya-sinwar/

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/passport-of-unwra-teacher-found-on-body-of-sinwar/ar-AA1suXa9 Itsdsni (talk) 17:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done It is not known what edits you want to be made. KOLANO12 3 17:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 October 2024 (2)

Tu abuela 2806:109F:D:4EE2:51E7:871E:D5FD:D0FD (talk) 22:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 14:12, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

June 2024 Leaked Communications are authentic, per the cited WSJ article

Under the Israel–Hamas war subsection of the Leadership of Hamas in the Gaza Strip (2017–2024) portion of the article, the Wall Street Journal's article about leaked communications of Yahya Sinwar are discussed:

In June 2024, The Wall Street Journal published what it said were leaked communications between Sinwar and Hamas' leadership, in which Sinwar claimed to "have the Israelis right where we want them" and suggested that Palestinian civilian deaths were "necessary sacrifices" that would "infuse life into the veins of this nation, prompting it to rise to its glory and honour"^[66][67].

However, this is immediately followed up by the sentence claiming that these communications are unverified:

The authenticity of these messages could not be verified ^[68].

However, the source for this information -- originally published in The Wall Street Journal, citation [66] -- specifically notes that the messages were reviewed by publishers at the Wall Street Journal. The lack-of-verification of Sinwar's messages pertained to the CNN article, which essentially reported what was in the WSJ's article without further investigation. It does not claim that The Wall Street Journal did not verify the messages before publication, only that the CNN article is only reporting on the Wall Street Journal's investigation without similar authentication checks.

A non-paywalled version of the Wall Street Journal report can be found here. It directly states, "In dozens of messages—reviewed by The Wall Street Journal—that Sinwar has transmitted to cease-fire negotiators..." , which is also the case for the existing hyperlink attached to citation [66].

The sentence stating "The authenticity of these messages could not be verified^[68]" should be removed from the page, as it only pertains to a singular article whose focus was the contents of the original Wall Street Journal report. Given the contentious politics of Hamas, as well as the original danger surrounding such private information being leaked to the WSJ, it is not remotely strange that these leaked private messages would only be shared with the original publisher. The aforementioned sentence undermines the original WSJ report, and should be removed unless further information is brought forth that questions the original report's authenticity.

Brsolo21 (talk) 02:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

UNRWA Employee ID

The article states that Sinwar was found with an UNRWA employee ID. This is a direct quote of the Jerusalem Post, which is quoting an Israeli journalist on X/Twitter. However, the object pictured in the tweet is a Palestinian Authority passport belonging to a person whose occupation is listed as UNRWA employee, i.e. "an UNRWA employee's ID" (if not a less ambiguous phrasing) and not an employee ID issued by UNRWA. This may be a simple typo on Twitter or something else, but the distinction seems important in light of allegations against UNRWA regarding its role in the conflict. Doko Wolf (talk) 06:09, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 October 2024

remove killed and add martyred in the article sinwar was a legend!!! Ch. Masoom A.K (talk) 08:22, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

He was a terrorist. No. Matthew4100000- (talk) 14:43, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

No, this man was a terrorist who killed his on people on purpose. Matthew4100002 (talk) 14:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

he was a freedom fighter and a hero who didnt hide in tunnels and fought for resistance until his last breath. 49.183.39.84 (talk) 21:33, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

There is video evidence of him in tunnels with his family, and his wife is carrying an expensive $30,000 purse.

Matthew4100000- (talk) 22:27, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia not Twitter or Reddit do this somewhere else. Brandon Downes (talk) 02:37, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Please see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view نوح^{فث   Let's Chat!} 02:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 October 2024 (2)

Under personal life, the text about the age difference "who was 18 years younger than him." referring to his adult wife, seems suspiciously placed, in light of the facts of other leaders with more significant and troubling age differences between their spouses that go unmentioned.

Ex: Donald Trump's 24 year age gap with Melania is not mentioned in his wiki

   Boris Johnson's 24 year age gap with Symonds is not mentioned in his wiki
   Itamar Ben-Gvir's wiki does not mention he began dating his wife when she was 15 and he 26, and they married when she was 17. Discoltk (talk) 10:01, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done نوح^{فث   Let's Chat!} 02:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Portrait image

The image should be reverted to the original, as his face is visible in the original image. Matthew4100002 (talk) 14:47, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

However, the quality of the other images, such as , , , and , is too low. Especially the original one. Although it is a frontal portrait, the image is completely blurry and cannot be seen clearly, completely contrary to what you described as "visible." Nagae Iku (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

The frontal portrait is shown as a smaller image than it actually is, which makes it difficult to notice that it's also blurry. I believe people would prefer to see the front of his face instead of his side profile.

Matthew4100000- (talk) 22:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I have made an enhanced version of the front profile one, that's if someone wants to upload it. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yahya_al-Sinwar_2011.png Matthew4100000- (talk) 23:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I just uploaded it for you, but it seems that someone doesn't really like this image, so it has been reverted. Nagae Iku (talk) 23:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I initially reverted it due to the improper use of the edit summary. You just put it as "test" which made it seem like an edit test. You're more than welcome to revert it and make it that image but it could be disputed with other editors due to this image being of lower quality. نوح^{فث   Let's Chat!} 00:14, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's a good idea to use that image since the Manual of Style recommends against using AI upscaling to 'enhance' photos. (See: MOS:HOTLINK)

The current image seems like a better fit. quidama _talk 12:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

The current image is good. Jdftba (talk) 06:06, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 October 2024 (3)

change "Palestinians he considered to be collaborators" to "Palestinian spies"

change "In 2017, Sinwar was elected as the leader of Hamas in Gaza and claimed to pursue 'peaceful, popular resistance'" to "In 2017, Sinwar was elected as the leader of Hamas in Gaza and aimed for a peaceful, popular resistance"

Change "During his time in prison, Sinwar continued to coordinate the execution of Palestinians suspected of collaboration with Israel and planned the abduction of Israeli soldiers." to "During his time in prison, Sinwar learned Hebrew and immersed himself in Israeli politics and culture in hopes of "better understanding the enemy""

Change "Hamas and the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades have been designated terrorist organisations by the United States, the European Union, and other countries and, in September 2015, Sinwar was specifically designated a terrorist by the United States government." to "Hamas and the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades have been designated terrorist organisations by the United States, the European Union, and other countries and, in September 2015, Sinwar was specifically designated a terrorist by the United States government, however some countries and organisations view Hamas differently. Notably, Iran, Turkey, and Qatar, along with certain other Middle Eastern, recognise Hamas as a resistance movement rather than a terrorist group. These countries argue that Hamas is fighting for Palestinian liberation against Israeli occupation."

Change "Sinwar was killed on 16 October 2024, during a firefight with the Israeli military" to "Sinwar was killed and made a martyr on 17 October 2024, during a firefight with Israeli forces" 49.183.39.84 (talk) 21:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Please see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, these seem less than neutral.

نوح^{فث   Let's Chat!} 00:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

His brain tumor surgery ought to be mentioned

I’d add the fact that they removed his brain tumor while he was in prison somewhere in the intro paragraphs. This was an evil figure, and there’s no need to keep that a secret. RationalFactor (talk) 06:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to put it in the intro, and don't know in what way discussing it in some detail in the body of the article constitutes keeping it a secret, and I don't know why it would need to be kept a secret, nor what any of this has to do with his evilness. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 17:35, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request: Change infobox location of death

Change infobox location of death.

Old: "| death_place = Tel al-Sultan, Rafah, Palestine"

New: "| death_place = Tel al-Sultan, Rafah, Gaza Strip"

This would reflect the convention for other similar pages for recently assassinated Hamas officials in the Gaza Strip, such as Ayman Nofal, Jamila Abdallah Taha al-Shanti, Marwan Issa etc. The status of Gaza Strip as part of the State of Palestine, or as part of the autonomous Palestinian Territories (with the State of Palestine not recognized by most Western or OECD countries), is contentious (it does have limited observer state status in the UN). See International recognition of the State of Palestine. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 00:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done. I have added Gaza Strip as the death location, but I will leave Palestine in until further discussion indicates a more uniform consensus. I have also added a dubious template to help gather consensus more easily. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 16:03, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

That seems like a measured and Wikipedian approach. Thank you! Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 22:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Agreed—since this is such a controversial topic, and it is the subject of so many disinformation campaigns, there needs to be more nuance on the part of editors to reserve judgment so as to be conscientious about the fact that information wars cost human lives, no matter your personal opinion. States, for example, do not gain their sovereignty by popular vote of the UN membership. Kandbsoalkan (talk) 01:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

“Gaza strip” is not a country, but the state of Palestine is. It doesn’t matter if the western client states of Israel do not recognise Palestine considering that most of the world’s countries, including many western ones do in fact recognise it

The Gaza Strip is part of a country called Palestine, and Yahya sinwar died in the Gaza Strip, which in Palestine, so he died in Palestine The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 14:46, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Your entire reference to Western sovereign nations as "client states of Israel" suggests a very un-Wikipedian bias in this discussion, and it also borders on classically antisemitic conspiracy theories of world domination, domination of the West etc. See the IHRA's Working definition of antisemitism. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 17:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Neutral Editor 645 As you are not yet extended confirmed, please remember to limit yourself to edit requests with regards to contentious topics. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

There is absolutely nothing ‘antisemitic’ about calling western nations, with the biggest emphasis on the United States who cannot even bring itself to condemn this colonising usurping entity, vetoes any attempt to place any consequences on it, and spends billions of dollars so it can keep blowing up kids a ‘client state’.

Wikipedia is meant to be neutral. Wikipedia users are not neutral, this is why we have talk pages to discuss contentious topics. That being said, saying that Yahya sinwar was killed in Palestine is not a violation of neutrality The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 16:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I came here from the infobox note which currently reads, “Tel al-Sultan, Rafah, Gaza Strip, Palestine.” That seems fine to me and seems to address all issues. That is unless you want to endlessly beat the drum — and the dead horse — of the "client states of Israel." Please give it a rest. --01:59, 4 December 2024 (UTC) Giacomo1968 (talk) 01:59, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

A state whose very existence is disputed. You could perhaps try "Occupied Palestinian Territory" Shoshin000 (talk) 17:28, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Military Fatigues and AK-47

The reference states, "A photo suggesting Sinwar’s death shows him wearing a tactical vest and holding an AK-74." However, the photo included in the article is blurred out and the unblurred photos show no weapons on his person. Given the video of Sinwar attempting to throw a stick at an IDF drone, it is unlikely he had any firearm on him at the time of his death. Footzitzgerald (talk) 15:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Update death section

Death section should be updated to include the details of the actual death.

According to reports, 3 men were seen during a patrol. 2 of the men were covered in blankets and thus considered to be potential hostages. The 3rd man was dressed in military gear and seen holding a gun, so was shot at and appeared to be hit. The man who was shot ran into one building and the other 2 ran into another. This was around 10am. Shortly after that a soldier tried to enter the building but 2 gernades were thrown at them. The building was then shelled. At 16:00 drone footage was released that shows the man unable to use his right arm and apparantly immobilized. The drone shows the man throwing a stick with his left arm in a very uncoordinated manner. Shortly after this the building was shelled again and destroyed. The next day the body was recovered and immeditelty recognized to be Sinwar. His index finger was removed so they could do DNA testing and confirm it was him. They had his DNA from when they did brain surgery on him years earlier. His right arm was severly injured, as was his left knee/leg, in addition to the lethal hits.

This is all well documented and will add details about the death. 2A0D:6FC0:838:D300:ED8:1BA3:B6AC:A2 (talk) 20:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Don't expect other people to do the work for you. If it's well documented, then cite that documentation. Propose exactly what text should be added, with appropriate citations to reliable sources. Nothing gets into the article without sources. ~Anachronist (talk) 04:50, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

What you are reporting is not correct. All the three people were Hamas militants, as it was confirmed by both Hamas and Israel. The three were killed during the gunfight.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/hamas-says-al-sultan-brigade-commander-was-also-killed-alongside-sinwar-in-gaza/3366680 Gianluigi02 (talk) 11:28, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Hamas's Reponse not given - Neutrality needed

Under Death section, responses from the IDF and Netanyahu are given, but no official response from Hamas, even though it issued multiple official statements. This is a large breach of the rules of neutrality.

For example, in a statement to NBC news they stated that the assassination "would only make them stronger" https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/live-updates-hamas-leader-yahya-sinwar-possibly-killed-gaza-rcna175922

There are several options published here on Al-Jezeera: Khalil Hayya, the head of Hamas in Gaza, described Sinwar as “steadfast, brave and intrepid,” adding that he “sacrificed his life to the cause of our liberation.” “He met his end standing brave, with his head held high, holding his firearm, firing until the last breath, until the last moment of his life. “[Sinwar] has lived his whole life as a holy fighter. Since his early days, he was engaged in his struggle as a resistant fighter. He stood defiant behind Israeli bars, and after his release in a swap deal, he continued with his struggle and his dedication to the cause,” Hayya said. Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of Hamas, issued a statement mourning Sinwar, saying he “ascended facing the enemy, not retreating.” “The criminal enemy is delusional if he thinks that by assassinating the great leaders of the resistance such as Sinwar, Haniyeh, Nasrallah, al-Arouri and others, he can extinguish the flame of the resistance or force it to retreat. Rather, it will continue and escalate until the legitimate goals of our people are achieved,” it said. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/17/world-reacts-to-israel-claims-hamas-leader-sinwar-killed

Another could be from this: "In an announcement delivered by Khalil al-Hayya, head of Hamas in Gaza, the resistance group said that Sinwar 'dedicated his life for Palestine, and sacrificed his soul for the sake of God on the path to its liberation.'" https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/maureen-clare-murphy/yahya-sinwar-killed-combat-israeli-forces-gaza

The article from Al-Jezeera notably also contains reactions from other notable parties, including Iran and Hezbollah, and those may also be relevant to include. But at the very least, it is obviously wrong to give *only* the Israeli reaction. Jdftba (talk) 06:18, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Totally agree the death section seems lacking compared to the other sections. I think Khalil Hayya’s quotation would be appropriate to add. I also think a new section about post-mortem response, which has been significant globally, would be good to add. Ausrussell (talk) 07:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Editing country name to city

It’s reasonable to keep palestine the country this man fought and died for 156.222.103.208 (talk) 15:25, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Butcher of Khan Younis nickname should be included

• Including this nickname highlights his role and reputation in enforcing discipline among suspected collaborators in Gaza, which many sources and historical accounts mention as significant.
• Excluding this nickname would be violating Wikipedia:Neutral point of view
• Multiple reputable sources reference this nickname, demonstrating its usage in media and literature.
• Similar figures with nicknames related to their roles in crime or public perception, such as Al Capone (“Scarface”) and Pablo Escobar (“The King of Cocaine”), have these included due to historical impact. Including Sinwar’s nickname would align with Wikipedia’s standard for figures with a widely acknowledged alias.
• According to multiple reliable sources, this nickname is used not just by Israelis but Palestinians and independent journalists from other countries.

Sources:

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/19/nx-s1-5157131/who-was-yahya-sinwar-the-hamas-leader-killed-by-israel

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/17/middleeast/yahya-sinwar-hamas-leader-killed-intl/index.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/global-trends/yahya-sinwar-butcher-of-khan-younis-killed-by-idf-why-hamas-chief-was-israels-enemy-no-1/articleshow/114342824.cms?from=mdr

https://news.sky.com/story/who-is-hamas-leader-yahya-sinwar-the-butcher-of-khan-younis-israel-claims-to-have-trapped-in-a-bunker-13003842

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/who-was-yahya-sinwar-the-butcher-of-khan-younis-101729177623829.html EdmHopLover1995 (talk) 21:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request: Slight rewording in Early activities and imprisonment

In the sentence "He told interrogators that one of them had even said, 'he realized he deserved to die,'" there's no need for a comma. It could be better phrased as "He told interrogators that one collaborated even stated 'he realized he deserved to die.'"

The phrase "...by a source well-verse in Arabic is..." should be 'well-versed' instead of "well-verse" as far as I can tell.

Thanks. I like fixing little things like this, and I don't have 500 edits just yet for the extended-protection. Tolozen (talk) 07:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

At the rate you're going (just over 150 edits in almost 12 years) you'll need another 27 years to reach extended-confirmed! Anyway, I made the changes you suggested. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll try to get to 500 before the 2029 Hypernuclear War. :)

Anyways, thanks for those quick edits! Tolozen (talk) 22:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated "dedicated to eradicating Israel" claim.

There's a clause that says, "...though he [Sinwar] is also reported to have been dedicated to eradicating Israel." It links to an article that does not support, or even address that claim. The wiki article needs to either add evidence in support of the claim, or else remove it.

Moreover, "is reported to have been...." is a really gratuitous example of weasel words. Reported by whom? Eradicate how? Is the assertion that he wanted to blow it off the face of the earth (along with its many Palestinians residents?) Or would giving Palestinians equal civil and political rights to Jews count as "eradication?" And what does his "dedication to eradicating israel" consist of? A program he was actually executing? Just a personal goal he kept on his vision board?

It's a nonsensical claim, and it's hard to imagine a way it could be justified. At the very least, it should be cited, and "eradicate" should be replaced with something more descriptive and less sensational and partisan. 2600:100F:B1BC:3645:AB1D:67B3:719B:C226 (talk) 22:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Good point. I removed the "eradicate" language because Reuters does not back it up...do be aware that if another editor finds a source that actually quotes him it might get restored. Smallangryplanet (talk) 09:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

This comes directly from the Reuters article [5] He was dedicated to eradicating Israel. Alaexis_¿question? 21:06, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Smallangryplanet: any objection to restoring? Both this and the "peaceful, popular resistance" quote seem a bit non-neutral, but balance each other out in a way. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 21:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

He was dedicated to eradicating Israel. is the line solely from Reuters, it's not a thing he said. I don't see any reason to restore it, since it's not a quote within the article. It's basically unattributed WP:SYNTH on their part, it's not something someone said (let alone Sinwar). I would argue that it is not a matter of balance because he actually said – in an interview with Al Jazeera and later in a press conference – that he was aiming to pursue 'peaceful, popular resistance' - a quote that has many, many citations from RS. Smallangryplanet (talk) 22:37, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Reuters is one of the more objective sources and says it in their own voice, so I don't see why that wouldn't be a suitable source, but we can always add others like

• WaPo: "dedicated to the destruction of Israel"
• ToI: "under Sinwar Hamas focused immense manpower and monetary efforts on turning the Strip into a base of operations from which to work to destroy the Jewish state"

Mentioning Sinwar's self-proclaimed peacefulness without such context seems misleading and non-neutral; we wouldn't use a peaceful Hitler quote without similar context or qualifications. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 22:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Sure, all I was asking for was additional sourcing, thanks! Smallangryplanet (talk) 12:17, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Nationalty

Should we remove "nationality" parameter from the infobox per MOS:INFONAT, even occupied countries (during wartime) as legal nationality. Absolutiva (talk) 22:53, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Collaborators

His activity while being in prison is supported by the NYT article (Mr. Sinwar continued his campaign against informants from behind bars...). Alaexis_¿question? 22:12, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 December 2024

This page is wrong it have shown yahya sinwar as a terrorist while he was a freedom fighter this is hypocrisy. 139.135.40.47 (talk) 16:48, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Personal opinions arent relevant here. nableezy - 16:53, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done per Nableezy. KOLANO12 3 17:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)