User talk:DonCalo/Archive 2009

Mafia and Duelling

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Mafia

The Mafia thus became a loosely organized society under -an unwritten code of laws or ethics known as Omertd, i.e., manliness (from Sicil. omu, Ital. uomo, a man), which embodied the rules of the Vendetta. Candidates were admitted after trial by duel, and were sworn to resist law and defeat justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.238.171.175 (talk) 14:55, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Thor Halvorssen Hellum

I reverted again based on this edit summary, but then saw that you did re-write some of it in spite of that edit summary. I was going to revert myself, but you've since re-done it again, so I think it's OK now. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Mafia template

I recently started a Mafia template and I thought I'd see if you have any ideas for improving it.  LinguistAtLarge • Msg  17:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I've improved the proposed changes on the talk page Template talk:Mafia, and would like to see if you have any additional input. Thanks!  LinguistAtLarge • Msg  21:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Francesco Paolo Varsallona

On January 25, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Francesco Paolo Varsallona, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 17:30, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

POV campaign by an anonimous user

Hi expert, I noticed that you too have been reverting the edits of user 217.201.134.249. This user is editing several articles about italian politics and from my point of view he is deliberately trying to switch the POV af all these article in favour of the Berlusconi coalition often by simple removal of true informations. I have already tried to discuss with him but he left the discussion and deliberately ignored it restoring again and again his edits. Do you have any idea about how to stop this?--pokipsy76 (talk) 11:31, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Riots

Hello Mafia Expert, I'm User:Jok3r of Italian Wikipedia, I write this evening the article of Castelvolturno riots; you can from this article to an article in this edition of wikipedia. we could work together, helping each other to create new and beautiful articles, I admire your work! Good night and good work.--87.0.168.2 (talk) 22:37, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block

Regarding reversions[1] made on March 23 2009 to Francesco Marino Mannoia

You have been blocked from editing for a short time in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule. Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below.

The duration of the block is 12 hours. William M. Connolley (talk) 22:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Alright, if it's expired under Italian copyright law, then it should be permissible to copy here and just post the image (or just a link to the file here since it's a bit graphic). That would be probably be better but I don't know anything about the interaction between copyright laws. I think you should ask at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions about that. As for User:Evenmoremotor, as you can see here, he's basically on "do it again and you will be blocked indefinitely" now. I think that's severe enough. As to why you were blocked and not him, I don't know. User:William M. Connolley said it here but perhaps you can ask him politely. As for Nicola Gentile, I don't understand. We shouldn't be using self-published sources generally. If the dates have been an issue, how can this be the only source? Someone must have a reliable source, and it must be out there (even if not online). The fact that we haven't found a reliable source isn't an excuse to use sources we generally shouldn't. As you can see from the ANI board, the concern was because he was within policy, which is why I've removed quite a bit from Allen Glick, Mickey Featherstone and Marat Balagula. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Additional information needed on Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Evenmoremotor

Hello. Thank you for filing Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Evenmoremotor. This is an automated notice to inform you that the case is currently missing a code letter, which indicates to checkusers why a check is valid. Please revisit the page and add this. Sincerely, SPCUClerkbot (talk) 20:37, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

You shouldn't have to say it, but you told me so. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Cesare Mori

Hello

I am trying to contribute to Cesare Mori's page and I saw you erased the bibliography. Is it a problem for Wikipedia standards if the books are not in English? Because I'm afraid that none of Arrigo Petacco's books was translated into English and besides, I cannot find on Google books the English original of

Moses I Finley, Denis Mack Smith, Christopher Duggan, Kai Brodersen, "Geschichte Siziliens und der Sizilianer", C.H.Beck, 2006

Regards,

S Vecchiato —Preceding unsigned comment added by S vecchiato (talk • contribs) 07:08, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Request from Joyson Noel

Hi dude, i have a favor to ask of you. Do you mind creating the following articles on Camorristi? My final exams are commencing tomorrow and will end only on May 8. As a result, i will be busy throughout the duration of this period and will be unable to contribute any edits to wikipedia. So, please create these for me if you can. It will be greatly appreciated. They are as follows:

• Francesco Mallardo, boss of the Mallardo clan
• Luigi Vollaro, boss of the Vollaro clan
• Lorenzo Nuvoletta, boss of the Nuvoletta clan
• Gennaro Licciardi, boss of the Licciardi clan

I have noticed that you have created many articles on Mafiosi women. Perhaps, you would be interested in creating an article about Erminia Giuliano, Giuliano clan boss. Thanks. Joyson Noel (talk) 21:38, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

If you don't have time for the articles, or are simply not interested, then it's all right. I'll understand. It was just a request. You can ignore it, if you like. Joyson Noel (talk) 17:30, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Pupeta Maresca wedding photo

I'm stuck in a difficult situation here. I found this wedding photo of Pupeta Maresca with Pasquale Simonetti while browsing. This is the link. The photo was taken on Naples in 1954. The photo should be in public domain in Italy, because its term of copyright has expired. As per Italian copyright law, simple, documentary photographs without creative input of the author enter the public domain after 20 years counted from January 1st of the calendar year following their first publication.

However, the photo which is taken from the Bettmann Collection is specified as being under "Rights Managed". Such content is licensed for specific predefined usages, for which usage fees must be paid.

The photo is in public domain under Italian law, yet this site is claiming this as copyrighted. So, what do you suggest should be done? Should this photo be uploaded as under PD, or not? I feel that i should. I'm waiting for your opinion. Please reply as soon as possible. I'm only free today, and i won't be having much free time tomorrow. Thanks. Joyson Noel (talk) 18:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I'll upload the image. That stupid logo is very light and not much visible, if you look at it as a thumbnail. Your right! It's copyright status has expired long ago under Italian law and should be in public domain. Therefore, they have no right to claim authority for that, especially since it's not a work of art. Joyson Noel (talk) 19:50, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Castel Volturno riots

Hi, there is a dispute going on in regard to whether the article's title should be changed to Castel Volturno massacre or not. Please join the discussion in the article's talk page. Your intervention is urgently needed. Joyson Noel (talk) 21:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

No need for that. The discussion is over. Joyson Noel (talk) 21:22, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

About sources

I'm sorry. I assumed that David Amoruso was a credible authority on this subject. I will change the sources, when i get the time. Joyson Noel (talk) 07:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

User:Mynameisstanley

Hello Mafia Expert, i have reason to believe that our "old friend" is back. This guy is obviously not that bright and certainly doesn't seem to understand the meaning of "Banned". It seems to me that these accounts User:Persistent Organic Pollutants and User:Morningmistblue might belong to the one and the same user. If you just look at the contributions of the first as well as the latter, you will find that the first identity was created on 11th May, whereas the second was created on the 14th (a mere three days within each other). Also, both these accounts have made only a few edits and all to the Organized crime related articles which were previously vandalized by Mynameisstanley through his many sockpuppets (such as Stephen Grammauta, Mickey Cohen, Gaspare Mutolo, etc). They both seem to have a pre-occupation with deleting references, merging the "References" section with the "Further reading" section, minimizing image size, etc, all hall marks of Mynameisstanley.

As such, i request you to file a usercheck to be conducted on these accounts, ascertaining whether these accounts are from the same IP address, as well as how many more accounts are there. If they are originating from the same IP, then it can be positively determined to be him. The reason i am requesting you is because i don't know how to file a usercheck request myself. Given his history of sockpuppetry and repetitive ban evasions, this request should not be rejected. Joyson Noel (talk) 19:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I have filed a a Check User request here. You are invited to add your comment. Joyson Noel (talk) 17:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Left a message at User:William M. Connolley's talk page regarding this matter. 72.74.223.106 (talk) 12:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Gang Land News

Following my comments at ANI, I've started a discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Gang_Land_News about Gang Land News if you are interested. As a suggestion, have you guys considered a work group on organized crime under WP:BIO or a task force under WP:CRIME? There should be some central place to discuss these kinds of issues. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 12:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Friendly Advice

Thanks for giving me some much needed advice, dude. I'll keep them in mind. I'm sorry. I did not realize that you felt that i was ordering you around when i sent you a request to create articles. I assure that is not the case. It's just that i'm a very informal person in real life and always frank and to the point. I don't mean to be rude. I also want you to know that the way i behaved today is not how i normally behave. I have waited for over ten days now with no response. Nobody seems to care. Meanwhile, that dimwit is making a nuisance out of himself. Day before yesterday, he vandalized my complaint calling me "gay". Today, he started reverting all my edits one by one through a sock entitled User:UR a Dope. This act totally aggravated me and i lost my usual cool. At the time i was elaborating on the complaint today, i was actually being harrassed by his sock, which explains why i acted the way i did. I guess i expect too much from others. Somewhere along the way, i forgot that they are volunteers like me as well and are under no obligation to listen to me. Thanks for reminding me of that. Joyson Noel (talk) 15:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Vito Roberto Palazzolo.jpg

Replaceable fair use

Thanks for uploading Image:Vito Roberto Palazzolo.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

1. Go to the media description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. (ESkog)^(Talk) 18:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Mafia Expert, I've decline the speedy for Image:Vito Roberto Palazzolo.jpg, and opened a discussion at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. The discussion is here. Thanks. PhilKnight (talk) 19:25, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Santo Sorge

Hi,

great job. I would like also to add references from Pantaleone's book Mafia e Droga. If you don't have it (sound strange) i can add them. PS: I got Santo Sorge birth/death date from the Social Security Death Index Database. Very useful!

Ciao BBerry —Preceding unsigned comment added by BBerryIT (talk • contribs) 23:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Here there are some additional infos about Santo, but there are no detailed references. Maybe on NYTimes Archives we can get something.

According to Joe Bonanno:

‘Santo Sorge belongs to the the Cosa Nostra. It is my personal knowledge that his function was to go and come from America to Italy and vice-versa, carrying out tasks that I don’t know. I was never able to understand to what family he belongs. He was a close friend of all Cosa Nostra bosses.’

Sorge was also deep into another libel suite brought against Parade Publications for $1,160,000 on the basis of a magazine article which had said that Sorge was listed by former FBN Commissioner, Harry Anslinger, as the number 5 boss in the top 10 bosses of the American underworld.

The libel suit against New York and the two officers was dismissed on March 19th 1968.

Santo Sorge was without doubt, one of the great 'unknowns' of the American Mafia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BBerryIT (talk • contribs) 00:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Problem with (possibly) Mynameisstanley

MafiaExpert, I'm apparently being stalked by one of the IPs possibly being used by Mynameisstanley. Right now he keeps reposting random IP addresses on my talk page, the same ones on User talk:William M. Connolley, which he claims are my "sockpuppets". I've tried to be polite up until now but I think he's pretty much trying to pick a fight with me at this point. Any suggestions? 72.74.223.106 (talk) 23:55, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Luigi Putrone

Hi Mafia Expert,

I'm trying to contribute to Luigi Putrone's article, a recent creation, but i'm not a native English speaker, so any improvements in style and grammar are welcome. Thanks. -- G. Calabria (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Putrone's date of birth

Hi,

Luigi Putrone was born on September 8, 1960 Programma Speciale di Ricerca - PUTRONE LUIGI —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoffrey Calabria (talk • contribs) 14:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

File:Giuseppe Nirta.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Giuseppe Nirta.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Damiens.rf 00:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Brazilian politicians

Wikipedia has a rule about duplicate categorization. An article isn't supposed to be in Category:Brazilian politicians if it's already in a subcategory such as Category:Presidents of Brazil — the article goes in one category or the other, not in both at the same time, because the whole Presidents category is already in the politicians category. Bearcat (talk) 13:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The only thing preventing it from being a systemic breaking-down category is the fact that Category:Members of the Brazilian Chamber of Deputies and Category:Members of the Brazilian Senate haven't actually been created yet — that rule is about whether it can be systemically broken down, not about whether it already has been. Category:Brazilian politicians can be systemically broken down by the specific political role each person held — and thus there simply isn't any useful or valid reason for an article to be in both Category:Brazilian politicians and Category:Presidents of Brazil simultaneously.

What I've said here is not inconsistent with WP:SUBCAT. And unless you're prepared to personally go around adding "Country politicians" to every politician in any other country who's already in their appropriate role subcategory instead, there's no valid reason for Brazilian politicians to be treated differently than any other country's politicians are. Bearcat (talk) 18:41, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

By your reasoning, each and every Brazilian politician would also have to be filed in Category:Politicians, Category:Brazilian people, Category:People, Category:Humans, Category:Brazil, Category:Politics and Category:Society. It isn't the job of a category to be a complete and thorough list of every article that fits regardless of where else it's filed — WP:SUBCAT is actually misleading, because the examples it cites aren't being categorized in the way it thinks. Musical films aren't also filed in Category:Musicals, and Academy Award winners aren't also filed in Category:Film actors. With rare exceptions, the job of a category is usually to hold only those articles at which that category is the most specific grouping available.

Ideally, we do want Category:Brazilian politicians to be empty of individual articles and to only contain subcategories — because if everything were organized optimally, every Brazilian politician would already be subcategorized by the specific job or jobs they had in politics. Not every politician is a president, true — but every politician holds a role that can legitimately become a category in its own right: president, vice-president, prime minister, minister of education, state governor, deputy/MP, senator, mayor, and on and so forth. Bearcat (talk) 16:20, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Jewish-American organized crime: causes

Hello. After you reverted my 15 September change to Jewish-American organized crime, I started a discussion at Talk:Jewish-American organized crime#Causes. I would be interested in anything you might wish to add to the discussion before I make further changes. Thanks and regards. Peter Chastain (talk) 19:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Kalil

All right, dude. It still seems suspicious to me, but i'll take your word for it. I'll retract my statement. Regards, Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 15:38, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

lol. It's nice to know that it had a positive effect as well. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 09:39, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Pizzo (BBC error)

Just curious how you know the BBC is wrong. Does it have an internal conflict? Is it contradicted by multiple alternative sources? Why, exactly, is the BBC "wrong"? Barring any evidence to the contrary, it should enjoy just as much veracity as any other similiarly positioned news service. It is, after all, just as much of a source as Business Week. - Shentino (talk) 19:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

See the reply at Talk:Pizzo (extortion). - DonCalo (talk) 19:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Request

Please stop trying to steamroll this discussion. Putting a summary in "undisputed facts" before the source audit is complete is premature. Shentino (talk) 00:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Camorra

Hey there,

I suppose you are an expert in this field. Could you perhaps find a source about the Camorra being the oldest criminal organisation in Italy? Ciao Mallerd (talk) 23:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Re:Operation Old Bridge

I'm gathering and organizing info so be a little patient with me. I'll double check the convictions to make sure their accurate. I'll add the title and publications soon. Right now I'm just trying to put in all the info I can. --Ted87 (talk) 22:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Query

Hullo, would you mind explaining this edit of yours on the article talkpage? As it was a revert of the sole contribution of Daniel Five (talk · contribs), that editor does not understand why their addition was removed, and is feeling a little bitten. Mahalo,  Skomorokh, barbarian  19:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello Mr Don Calo

Sir - I am a beginner in the Wikipedia world. I speak and write pretty good Italian, and am very interested in the Italian mafia/political arena. I have begun to make some minor edits to the English entries for various topics, generally correcting English grammar and ensuring that translations from the equivalent Italian pages are correct. I am now considering embarking on a more full revision of the Mani Pulite article, which looks to me to have been done by an Italian native speaker whose English is pretty good but not perfect.

I note that you have contributed a lot to many of these articles, but I suspect from some of your phrasing (please don't be offended) that your native language is Italian? If not, I apologise, but if I'm right, apart from complimenting you on your English, and of course on the major contribution you have made in this topic area, I was going to ask if we could collaborate from time to time on some items.

For example, I would like to ask your advice from time to time on my understanding of some items (I have been struggling quite a lot with the new Codice di Procedura Penale, the gips and gups etc (it's new to me, anyway)). Equally, I would like you maybe to review any major changes I plan to make, such as the revision of the English entry on Mani Pulite I mentioned before.

Finally, if you have any general advice for me on contributing to Wikipedia, or to this area of interest. Clearly, I am very conscious of the issues around defamation of living people, although I imagine that the extremely strict rules around defamation of public figures in the Italian press are not enforceable against me, a UK citizen living outside Italy and contributing to a global resource like Wikipedia. In fact, one of the obligations I feel as a foreigner but interested party is to try to raise awareness of the things going on in the Italian political and judicial arena, especially in the English speaking world.—Preceding unsigned comment added by RMutter (talk • contribs) 11:43, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Regarding declined speedy deletion requests.

When you stated, on my talk page, "you give a premium to people who only use Wikipedia for blatant self promotion and violate Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:Spam using sockpuppets (see: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Damiannabot). I think it should be deleted to show that such behaviour is not appreciated." I did nothing of the sort. The Criteria for Speedy Deletion is narrowly defined for only certain types of articles. This one was not one of them. However, there are other means of getting an article deleted. Removing the speedy deletion tag is not an endorsement of the article. What you should do is to file a request for deletion at WP:AFD and start a discussion. If you are right, the article WILL be deleted. --Jayron32 01:01, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Peron's Hands

Hi. I've been wrinting about the link between Licio Gelli and the cutting of Peron's Hands. That was a very shocking incident in Argentina and there were a lot of journalistic information about that. But my contributions were erased because Wikipedia's editors thought I was doing a promotional action. I wont write any more about that, because I lost a lot of time doing so. But I would say that there are a lot of facts about Gelli's and army activities during the first years of Argentina's democracy, and the strategy of tension against Alfonsin's goverment. Nothing of that appears in Gelli's biography. Regards Daniel Five —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel Five (talk • contribs) 14:44, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Dear Daniel Nabot, because that is who you really are, you only use Wikipedia for blatant self promotion and violate Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:Spam using sockpuppets (see: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Damiannabot/Archive). - DonCalo (talk) 11:04, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Pino Puglisi

On November 3, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pino Puglisi, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks Victuallers (talk) 07:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thanks for your response. I am going to start slowly, and restrict myself to obvious mistakes in English before I venture into what is a minefield! Here's my first question for you - in the article on Vito Ciancimino, it states "Ciancimino was born in Corleone, a village notorious for its powerful Mafia clans, such as the Corleonesi". Is this correct, as in there are multiple clans from Corleone? My understanding is that "the Corleonesi" are simply the mafiosi from Corleone. So would it not be more accurate to state "Ciancimino was born in Corleone, a village notorious for its powerful Mafia clan, the Corleonesi"? Secondly, there seems to be some mixing of reality and fiction in the article on Corleone itself, stating that it is the "birthplace of Vito Andolini Corleone". Do you agree that an edit making it clear that this is a fictional character might not go amiss here? RMutter (talk) 21:59, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Giuseppe Diana

On November 6, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Giuseppe Diana, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 03:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Cats

I fail to understand your logic behind this. How can one be initiated into the Sicilian Mafia and not be called a Sicilian Mafiosi? Please reply here. Santiago Matamoros 11:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Because you are not Sicilian. They were initiated to ensure some kind of allegiance, but not to be part of the day-to-day affairs of a Mafia family. I think "associate" describes that better. - DonCalo (talk) 13:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

But the evidence suggests otherwise. The Nuvoletta clan managed a deposit and possibly a heroin refinery on Luciano Liggio's behalf. The Mazzarella, Nuvoletta and Zaza brothers were controlled by Michele Greco. They were each also allowed to represent themselves in the cupola. I'm pretty sure that there are more such instances. So, we can be completely certain that as members, they were at least involved in some of the day-to-day affairs of a Mafia family, although in Campania and Naples. Furthermore, if the name seems to be the problem, i think that we should still add it. If Michele Greco, Filippo Marchese, Salvatore Greco, etc, can be considered to be part of the Corleonesi, even though they were not from Corleone and headed their own families outside Corleone, then so can these Camorra figures be described as Sicilian Mafiosi. What do you think? Santiago Matamoros 13:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, but I don't agree. The comparison with the Corleonesi is not valid. You cannot compare apples with pears. The Corleonesi were all Sicilian, and the reference to Corleonesi does not mean that they all belonged to the same family, but that they were allied with them in the very specific circumstance of the Mafia war. Greco did not control the Camorristi, he wished he would have. Mazzarella, Nuvoletta and Zaza brothers cooperated with the Sicilian Mafia, but first and foremost they were members of the Camorra. I think that should be reflected in the categories and that is why I moved them to associates. Alternatively, we could create a category of Camorra members of the Sicilian Mafia, but I think that is overdoing it. Associates is better. - DonCalo (talk) 14:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Chronology of Second Mafia war

Dear Don Calo, the present state of the section about the Second Mafia war (and the related main article) is, in my opinion, a little bit confusing, as the Mafia war overlaps temporally with the Riina's terrorist strategy against the State. I believe we should redraft some parts (and/or add a CHRONOLOGY) to give the reader a clearer timeline of the complex events. It is not easy, but maybe we can work it out. First of all, when and why did the Second Mafia war start? In my opinion, the very first episode has been the murder of Giuseppe Di Cristina, who was an ally of Stefano Bontade and was suspected by the Corleonesi to be an informant of the Carabinieri. The second big question is when the war ended. In my mind, the arrest of Leoluca Bagarella in 1985 marks the ultimate defeat of the Riina's leadership, thus the end of the Second Mafia war and the start of the "underwater" period, led by Provenzano until 2006 (though now some turncoats say that Provenzano was much less powerful than Riina, acting more as an old-experienced influential strategist than as a tyrant). The war against the State is intertwined with the events of the Mafia war against the Losing Families, and may be probably dated back to the murder of the captain of Carabinieri Emanuele Basile in Monreale (1977). A crucial episode, not mentioned in the article, is the shooting of Carlo Alberto Dalla Chiesa (1982), who was sent to Palermo to fight the Mafia without proper political support. Do you agree with me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Madimarc (talk • contribs) 11:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

what about a timeline?

Ok! I agree with you that the "Di Cristina" affair was the beginning. As far as I can remember, he was trying to outcast the Corleonesi by informing the Carabinieri about their increasing influence over the drug business. It is not known how the Corleonesi get the information about the secret talks between Di Cristina and the Carabinieri. Nor it is clear when and why the Corleonesi started to suspect that Di Cristina was just a puppet in the hands of Stefano Bontade. For what concerns the end, I may also agree with you to take the fully establishment of the dictatorship of Riina as the final stage of the war. What is very difficult is to insert the parallel war against the State in the general picture. The same could be said about the financial aspects (Sindona's bankruptcy and related events, involving Pippo Calò, Calvi etc.). Maybe a timeline of events, in chronological order, could be a fruitful starting point. Have a nice time... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Madimarc (talk • contribs) 15:50, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

File:Condelloarrest.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Condelloarrest.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Peripitus (Talk) 00:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Changes on Vito Rizzuto page

Hi,

I'm a newbie at editing wikipedia pages, and I've just made a small correction on the Vito Rizzuto page concerning the death of Vito's grandfather of the same name, but I noticed that you reversed it back. The source from which you take your information (that he died in Sicily in 1928) was written by Adrian Humphreys in 2001, who is the co-autor of the biography of Rizzuto. In the 2nd edition of The Sixth Family, written in 2008, Lee Lamothe & Adrian Humphreys made an in-depth research concerning the life and death of Vito's grandfather (with the same name), and it appears that he immigrated in America in 1925, moved to New York and New Jersey, and finally was murdered in 1933, when Nicolò was nine. The sources they cited are government files, the coroner's report, newspaper articles and law enforcement reports.

It appears clear to me that, since the both sources are from the same autor, the latest one should be the most reflective on Vito Rizzuto's grandfather's death.

--Evilpingouin (talk) 17:43, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Changing the name

Montreal Crime Family to Rizzuto crime family or the Canadian Mafia

what do you think would be a good idea the family was part of the Bonanno family but has now become its own family.

--MrNostra 20:05, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good

I liked the correction you made to the page I don’t know how to change the name of the page to

Italian organized crime in Montreal

I don't know much about the Mafia in Canada. It seems you know a lot. Does Canada have any other crime families? I know the Buffalo crime family does operate some times in Canada near the Niagara Falls.

Can you add in some brief history on the Cotroni family?

How many members are in this family today?

Thanks --MrNostra 16:18, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I saw this page Giuseppe Lucchese and wondering is he related to Tommy Lucchese from NYC Lucchese crime family?

--MrNostra 21:34, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Request

Hi, i'm sure you will not be surprised to find out that the vandalizing moron has returned. He is once again wreaking havoc in the Organized Crime related articles. I am completely fed up with that guy. I have been nailing him for two years and he keeps returning like an annoying pest. I think that he must be mentally deranged in a way. I would like to file a user check request against him, but i do not have the time or the patience for it. As such, i would greatly appreciate it if you could do it for me. I assure you that this is my last request. The following are his two accounts:

• Not So Public Property
• Ul78q34

Please note that the edits of Not So Public Property are similar to Thefreezewarning. Thanks. Joyson Konkani 11:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Done! You are invited to comment here. Thanks. Joyson Konkani 17:43, 19 December 2009 (UTC)