Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2014 September 9

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September 9

What's the point of points in basketball?

In basketball - and, until a few years ago, in volleyball - a game won is awarded two points and a game lost is awarded one point, with a tie not being permitted as a final result by the rules of the game. So in a group tournament where all teams will eventually have played the same number of matches, the final ranking by points is in fact a final ranking by matches won, with an additional point given to each team for each match played - apart from the rather exceptional cases where zero points are awarded to the losing team after a forfeited game, which could easily be compensated by deducting points from the losing team (cf. the last season of the Cypriot football championship, where a team finished with minus 39 points). Is there some sort of history behind the basketball ranking system, has it been criticized as being pointless, and have there been proposals to abolish it? --Theurgist (talk) 00:32, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Which basketball league are you asking about? In North America, neither the NBA nor the NCAA uses a game points system like ice hockey or association football; records in those leagues use straight win-loss records to rank teams. Likewise, Euroleague regular season also does not use a game-points system, it uses win-loss record. I know of no basketball league which uses a ranking system based on points; they all seem to use wins alone to rank teams. --Jayron32 00:46, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

World Cup Basketball (FIBA) uses this system. See, for example points calculation in group tournament ranking and FIBA's rules here. "Teams shall be classified according to their win-loss records, namely two (2) points for each game won, one (1) point for each game lost (including lost by default) and zero (0) points for a game lost by forfeit." But I couldn't find an answer (and won't speculate). ---Sluzzelin talk 00:50, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, that's just a pre-tournament ranking. Since the teams don't play head-to-head much before the tournament, there has to be a way to rank teams to seed them in said tournament. Within actual head-to-head competition, however, they just use win-loss record. --Jayron32 01:02, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the final round is a knockout stage (see, for example 2014 FIBA Basketball World Cup final round), but I think Theurgist was asking about group tournaments (for example the World Cup preliminary round) all along, and the question still remains as to why a system avoiding negative points (and scores) was chosen. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Not familiar with the system, but it seems the zero for forfeits is what gives it its point. A zero is twice as easy to come back from as a -1. Keeps it more competitive, I suppose, while also penalizing quitters harder than losers.

You want pointless points, try watching mixed martial arts, with its ten-point must system. A 10-8 round is hard enough to get, a 10-7 nearly impossible. Points 1-6 are never used, but for some reason, we don't just make it three-point must. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:56, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Australian Rules Football assigns four points for a win, two for a draw, and zero for a loss (or a forfeit). For cultural reasons I happen to know an awful lot about the game, but I have never been able to understand why those respective numbers of points aren't 2, 1 and 0 respectively. HiLo48 (talk) 01:07, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Aye. The Champion Carnival may not be a sport, but it gets it. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:34, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Introductions, introits, preambles, and preludes

What term refers to the first portion (ending at 0:56) of this performance of "Wait 'Till the Sun Shines, Nellie"?

• Wait Till The Sun Shines Nellie - Barbershop Quartet Polecat) - YouTube [sic] (2:01)

It is not included in this performance.

• Bing Sings "Wait Till the Sun Shines Nellie" - YouTube (2:55)

—Wavelength (talk) 03:00, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

That's called the verse (see Verse-chorus form). George Burns, when he appeared on The Tonight Show, used to sing the verses of familiar old songs and ask Johnny to identify what songs they were from. They're often so unconnected with the material in the choruses (and so seldom sung) that this can be a real challenge. (A beautifully all-purpose, self-referential one is the verse of Cole Porter's "It's De-Lovely".) I've been known to play that parlor game myself. Deor (talk) 05:11, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much.—Wavelength (talk) 19:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Does anyone know what is this instrumential song?

I'm pretty sure it's some free background music but I can't find it. Already asked the one who made that video but she doesn't know. [1] --91.157.56.168 (talk) 08:16, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello old bean! I would suggest you ask the lovely young lady to upload onto Youtube a minute of video with the music without her talking over the top. You could then play this clip into an app like Shazam (service) and see if it recognises it. Good luck! Quintessential British Gentleman (talk) 23:39, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Below the description is a series of links to sell the track "Dare to Dream" by Utopian Sounds; follow the links and listen to sample(s). In the video it's too faint for me to be sure of a match. —Tamfang (talk) 23:41, 10 September 2014 (UTC)