Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Deucalionite

The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:Deucalionite

Suspected sockpuppeteer

Deucalionite (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Suspected sockpuppets

Elysonius (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Report submission by

Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Evidence

• Apparent long-standing, large scale sockpuppeting scheme. Elysonius has >1600 edits since creation in October 2006; Deucalionite has >23,000 edits since July 2005.

• Temporal edit pattern: Despite thousands of edits, almost daily activity over 18 months and generally similar time-of-day profiles, these two accounts have never edited simultaneously. They mostly edit on alternate days.

• Similar style on talk pages (elaborate, stilted, somewhat long-winded)

• Common interests:
  • Focus on mass talkpage tagging for wikiprojects, minor edits, proposing articles for peer review
  • Common predilection for edit summaries "minor fix", "minor tweak" and similar
  • Common interest in Greek ethnicity topics, including pre-Greek archaeology, Pelasgians, Arvanites, Souliotes, Armatoloi
  • Both push the same fringe views regarding a number of issues:
    • that Arvanites have Greek, non-Albanian origins (Deucalionite: [1], [2]; Elysonius: [3])
    • that Pelasgians and other prehistoric peoples were Greeks (D: [4]; E.: [5])
  • Both use OR, unsuitable references, falsifying quoted material in similar ways (see discussion of Deucalionite's edits here, Elysonius here)

• Deucalionite has a checkered past with several disruption blocks; he is known to use Wikipedia for what he calls "social experiments" [6] (i.e. breaching experiments). His use of Elysonius may be yet another of these schemes, in an apparent "good hand"-"bad hand" scenario: Elysonius loudly (a bit too loudly?) professes his alleged indifference to nationalist ideologies ([7], [8], [9], [10]); flatters potential opponents ([11]); but then stealthily goes on pushing the same nationalist fringe views Deucalionite is fond of.

• Deucalionite and Elysonius have taken part in the same discussions supporting each other ([12], [13] , [14], [15]) and praising each other ([16]). Strikingly (for two accounts who have cooperated so much) they have never felt the need to talk to each other.

Comments

Their edits seem referenced except from a few errors.Pelasgians as Greeks is not a fringe view since in their mythology they were Greeks and could simply have been an older Greek people.Do the 2 users have the same Ip?Megistias (talk) 12:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I have no way of knowing since I'm not a checkuser. Might be worth a request though. I'd just want a sanity check here first. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:48, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The evidence does seem compelling, but hardly conclusive. I am happy to declare that Elysonius is not my sockpuppet. In fact, he decided a while back to become my "pupil" and contacted me via email. Unfortunately, I have no records of our conversations since they have all been deleted (I habitually clean out my inbox every day). I apologize for not having said anything all this time. However, since Elysonius was making progress on Wikipedia, I thought that no one else had a problem with his behavior.

• Elysonius is not my sockpuppet, because I am his mentor. For a user to contribute over 1600 edits and not be called a sockpuppet until now is an indication of paranoia on the part of the accuser.

• I remember having suggested that Elysonius help me with some Greece-related articles (i.e. tagging and tweaking). His response was that he could only do such a thing during the afternoon since he told me that he works in the morning. As for me, I cannot edit Wikipedia articles in the afternoon since I attend academic seminars on a daily basis. The bottom line is that both Elysonius and I have vastly different schedules and therefore cannot edit simultaneously. Period.

• Yes, Elysonius has adopted some of my unique habits (except causing trouble thank God). However, this hardly proves that he is my sockpuppet. To say that because Elysonius "speaks like Deucalionite" and "edits like Deucalionite" does not mean that he is me. It means that he is my student and that he is simply choosing to follow his mentor. Duh.

• The only reason Elysonius even cares about the articles I used to edit is because he wants to be "tempered." He wants to learn how to overcome controversial articles without causing needless problems. I guess he is doing this to show how much of a "good student" he is. Since he wants to learn, I can only surmise that his mimicking me will help him for the time being. I must say that I am impressed with his progress.

• My social experiments have nothing to do with my mentoring Elysonius. Case in point, they never got in the way of my mentoring User:Dodona for God knows how long. In fact, its been a while since I have finished all research parameters for my social experiments. The "disclaimer" on my userpage is there for the current purpose of simply throwing other users off (i.e. Future Perfect time and again). It makes me laugh knowing that some users I know will never change while the rest of the world is moving on by.

• Elysonius and I chose to keep our conversations off-wiki (via email). We don't speak to each other on-wiki (except on article discussion pages) since we both get annoyed from any mindless interruptions that may arise from other users. Elysonius wants his "training" to remain confidential. Guess the cat's out of the bag.

Overall, Elysonius can only be classified as a "copy-cat" of sorts. But he is not my sockpuppet. I don't tell him what to edit or what not to edit. He makes his own decisions. This is something only real mentors understand. He hasn't contacted me recently. Maybe he's scared and that worries me.

I am aware that I cannot speak on Elysonius's behalf. However, this doesn't change the fact that he is a different user and has made me very proud. God help you Future Perfect if I lose this student. God help you. Deucalionite (talk) 16:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Inconclusive evidence. The evidence shown though is pretty strong however its all coincidental. Let's see what the checkuser shows....Dusti^{talk to me} 16:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Inconclusive evidence.They don't have the same IP and lots of people edit with similar views and interests.Megistias (talk) 09:08, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

More evidence: About those temporal coincidences. Deucalionite says above that the two accounts edited on different times of day. It is true that they have different typical time curves: Deucalionite peaks between 14 and 22h UTC (local "morning", presumably), Elysonius between 21 and 03h UTC (local "afternoon"). However, the curves overlap. Within the last nine months, Deucalionite made almost 3000 edits within the time of day that is otherwise Elysonius' typical editing time, and conversely Elysonius made 160 edits within Deucalionite's typical time span. Still, even with this substantial overlap, the two accounts never edited simultaneously. Whenever one account edited inside the other's normal time span, it was invariably on a day when that other account was inactive.

Checkuser report in: checkuser inconclusive, both accounts are on what may be a home IP / work IP located within "a reasonable commuter distance". Interesting in this context is a further look at the time patterns: the two accounts edit at coordinated times. Whenever Deucalionite stays in his place longer in the morning editing, Elysonius arrives at his place later to start editing. Whenever Deucalionite edits until 20:00 UTC or later, Elysonius remains inactive for that day. Conversely, whenever Elysonius starts editing before c.20:00 UTC, Deucalionite has been inactive on that day.

With this time pattern and the inconclusive but possible checkuser result, I would consider sockpuppetry proven. Given the large scale of the deception, the disruptiveness of the POV-pushing, and Deucalionite's disruptive past, I would urge for sanctions against both accounts, not just the sock. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Conclusions

I'd say this looks plausible, at least. Definitely worth a checkuser (here). Moreschi (talk) 15:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• I'm convinced. The chance of two people, so close geographically, independently collaborating is far less than the probability that this is one person editing from two locations with two accounts. The time pattern evidence is conclusive. Moreschi (talk) 09:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Accordingly, Elysonius (talk · contribs) is blocked indefinitely and Deucalionite (talk · contribs) is blocked for a month. Deucalionite is also limited to one account per WP:ARBMAC. Moreschi (talk) 09:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

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