Longines Chronoscope/15-09-1954

Narrator
It's time for the Longines Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a presentation of the Longines-Wittnauer Watch Company, maker of Longines, the world's most honored watch, and Wittnauer, distinguished companion to the world honored Longines.

Frank Knight
Good evening, this is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Longines Chronoscope: Larry Lesueur, from the CBS television news staff, and Francis W. Carpenter, of the Associated Press. Our distinguished guest for the evening is Sir Percy Spender, Ambassador from Australia to the United States.

Larry Lesueur
It's always a pleasure to welcome back an old friend. Well, our guest tonight is not only an old friend of the Chronoscope program, he's a tried and true friend of our country. Whenever we're in trouble, diplomatically speaking, we can always count on our friend from Australia to pitch in when the going gets rough. So, Percy, I'd like to ask you something about the recent conference in Manila. Did we actually get what we wanted out of that recent Southeast Asian pact?

Ambassador Sir Percy Spender
Depends upon what you mean by what you wanted. I think that there was a very substantial meeting of minds and, having regard to the difficulties with which we are confronted with, I think it was a very successful result.

Lesueur
Well, is this treaty any good, actually, if India and the other—some other Southeast Asian nations stay out of it?

Spender
Well, certainly we wouldn't have participated in it if we hadn't though it was good. We must make a start somewhere, we know that other countries have different views to our own, we understand the reasons why they differ. But it was Australia's view that we should go ahead and we did go ahead.

Francis W. Carpenter
Do you think the communism threat in Southeast Asia is the next big threat? Is that where the next pitch is to come from Moscow?

Spender
I can't say with any degree of certainty where the next pressure will be applied. One knows very well it's always applied where the weakness is. My feeling is, and it has been for some time past, that trouble will always occur in that part of the world, if any further trouble does occur.

Lesueur
Well, Sir Percy, a lot of people over in this country think, correctly or incorrectly, that the United States is again holding the bag, if I may say so, on the Southeast Asian defense alliance and that we are committed to fight in defense of certain countries, but they are not committed to fight unless they find that the action is in their self interest.

Spender
Rather true. I don't think it is at all, Mr. Lesueur. After all, under the terms of the treaty, we all enter into exactly the same obligation. The degree of that obligation in terms of burden, of course, varies with countries depending upon their military strength, their economic strength, and their interests. After all, it is quite clear that this country, with its greater economic and military strength, will carry the major portion of maintaining peace in that part of the world. But you will not find our own country lacking in its desire to work at all times in carrying out to the full the obligations we've entered into.

Carpenter
Sir Percy, while we are talking about communist dangers and threats, what is the situation with the Communist Party in your home, Australia?

Spender
Well, I suppose it's precisely the same as it is in most democratic countries. There has been a Communist Party in our country. There has been more than one attempt to deal with it by legislation. But the most effective means which so far we have found to deal with it, are first, by the work of unionists themselves inside their union, and secondly what is called in our country the secret ballot for the election of union leaders. And so that where the secret ballot applies, communist leaders are not able to engage in their usual tactics of rigging the ballot.

Carpenter
I think you've got a lot of applause from Americans by the firm way that your government handled that Petrov case down there, don't you, Larry?

Lesueur
Yes, the man who deserted from communism. Have the Russians reacted at all to your very stern action in connection with this man by giving him sanctuary?

Spender
The only result is well known to the world, if I'm able to speak about it. Namely they withdrew their embassy representatives from Australia, and we, as a result, did likewise.

Lesueur
You have no relations with the Soviet Union now?

Spender
What I understand--I understand, in strict protocol, the relations are not broken off, but--

Lesueur
They just don't exist.

Spender
They don't exist, that's all.

Lesueur
Sir Percy, what about the situation in Japan? Now, the Russians are trying to draw Japan into their trade orbit. Would you consider that a dangerous situation for your country and for mine?

Spender
I do not doubt whatever, that the prime aim of Russia in relation to Japan is at least the nuclearization of Japan, but over and above that its purpose is to seek by whatever means are open to, by blandishment, by pressure, by internal operations, to bring Japan into the orbit of the Soviet and Communist influence. After all, Stalin said a long time ago, that if that could be accomplished, the belief of the Soviets was, the communist world would be invincible. so any attempt by Russia or by the communists to attract Japan into its orbit, is one which causes concern, not only to us, but to all the free world, whose purpose ought to be to do whatever it can to enable Japan to develop and be maintained as a democratic country.

Lesueur
Well, Sir Percy, does Australia fear most the spread of communism, or is it afraid of a revivified aggression by Japan?

Spender
As at all times we have been weary of accepting the proposition that the roots of democracy have gone down deep into the Japanese way of life. It's a very proper observation to make that we see the immediate problem in the foreseeable future as that of communist aggression.

Carpenter
What do you think about the rearmament of Germany? Is that bothering Australians very much?

Spender
Oh, indeed it is. Because, after all, in two world wars we have come into a state of war and we have sent our troops oversees as a result of incidents which took place a long way from our shore in Europe, so whatever takes place in Europe is of consequence to us. We believe in very firmly that you cannot deal with segments of the world except in terms of seeing with the whole problem globally.

Lesueur
Well, Sir Percy, I'd like to turn to a place a that's little nearer to your country than Europe and that's Korea. Are you withdrawing your troops from Korea the way that we have and the British have, at least a portion of them?

Spender
There have been already, it was announced only the last two to three days. These matters were all discussed, of course, between the different nations and we have, the same as you, withdrawn some of our troops.

Carpenter
Do you think that will create a vacuum that will tempt the communists to try to come back down again?

Spender
I don't think so.

Carpenter
You think they'll observe the armistice.

Spender
I do not think that we're--this is my own judgment--I do not think we're likely to meet in Korea in the foreseeable future any resumption of open aggression.

Lesueur
Percy, we're going to see you sitting at the chair of Australia in the coming General Assembly of the United Nations, opening next week, and there's going to be a lot of interesting questions there, and one that everyone in the United States is interested in is the admission of red China. Do you think it's going to give us any trouble at this coming session?

Spender
I don't think any more than in the past.

Carpenter
What do you think will happen to it? Postpone it again?

Spender
I would think that there isn't any real danger of communist China being admitted into the United Nations at this session.

Carpenter
Should we say in the foreseeable future, is that phrase that is bandied about, I think?

Spender
Well, true it is, but of course it's bandied around like so many other phrases. but none of us can see anymore than a certain part of the future and there is nothing permanent in life in respect to anything.

Lesueur
One of the interesting questions that is going to come up there, Sir Percy, is the desire of Greece to incorporate Cyprus within its empire. now I ask you, are all the dominions going to back the position of Great Britain and its reluctance to turn over the island of Cyprus to the Greeks?

Spender
I will do no more than say that this is of course a matter primarily in which Great Britain is interested. But we too have our interests and for many other reasons quite apart from our very close association with Great Britain.

Carpenter
Well, you've got another case that's close to home, you've got the Indonesians wanting to take over West New Guinea.

Spender
That's right.

Carpenter
And what are your views on that?

Spender
Well, our views have been expressed more than once. We say, in the first place, it isn't a matter which is one which ought to be brought into the United Nations at all, And, secondly, that when the issue is examined there isn't the slightest merit in the claim of Indonesia that they're making. These people of West New Guinea are quite different people all together. I've never for my part been able to understand by what justification under the charter or otherwise, you can hand over either by this or that means, one and a half million people who are different people all together without asking them what they think. We don't hand over people these days, I hope, to anyone.

Lesueur
Now, Percy, I've heard it said in this country that Britain exercises a veto over the actions of the United States, and in turn India exercises a veto over the actions of Great Britain. Now how accurate would you say that theory is?

Spender
Well, if may use Mr. Carpenter's phrase, that's a slogan which is bandied about a bit too, you know. It's quite clear that no nation if it wants to pursue a course of conduct which is irrespective of what other nations think is limited by any veto. A nation, if it wants to, can say we'll do this irrespective of what other people think. But in these days, in the world in which we live, it's a very wise policy to have regard to the views of other nations. Not to condition precisely what the policy of a nation should be, but to have regard to it in determining the policy. And it's quite impossible to determine the policy without having regard to the views of the other people of the world.

Carpenter
Sir Percy, President Eisenhower's proposal for a peacetime atomic pool seems to be coming along all right. Australia's in on that, isn't it?

Spender
Yes, we indicated our acceptance of the proposal right the beginning.

Lesueur
Now, Percy, it's been almost a year since you've been on this program. I'd like to ask you, do you feel that the alliance of the free nations is as strong as it was during the Korean War, or are the seams showing, just a little bit?

Spender
Well, I don't doubt, Mr. Lesueur, that in the last twelve months, that there has been a substantial shift in the balance of power throughout the world. Behind the United Nations this struggle for power goes on. Primarily because of the aggressive policy of Soviet Russia and communist China. and that change in the balance of power is primarily due to the successes the communists have had particularly in Indochina, and to their psychological successes, for example in preventing, well, by bringing about indirect the collapse of ABC and by the progress which they have made in atomic and hydrogen weapons. And in the result, of course, has been a change in the balance of power. I don't mean by that that they have achieved the balance of power, but there has been a change in it. And therefore it renders the problem which confronts the free world of greater urgency.

Lesueur
Well, thank you very much, Sir Percy, it's always a pleasure to hear from our friend from Australia.

Spender
Very glad to be here.

Knight
The opinions expressed on the Longines Chronoscope were those of their speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Longines Chronoscope was Larry Lesueur and Francis W. Carpenter. Our distinguished guest was Sir Percy Spencer, Ambassador from Australia to the United States.

Knight
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Knight
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