SID2SID

Installation Guide

Sep 17, 2008

Introduction ..................................................................................................................3
Overview .......................................................................................................................4
List of Components ......................................................................................................5
Assembling the components ........................................................................................9
Installing the sockets ................................................................................................. 9
New filter capacitors for SID #1 ............................................................................. 10
Resistors .................................................................................................................. 11
Capacitors................................................................................................................ 12
Transistor................................................................................................................. 12
Filter capacitors ....................................................................................................... 13
Audio out / Chip select............................................................................................ 14
Installing the SID2SID ...............................................................................................16
Opening the C64...................................................................................................... 16
Removing the SID ................................................................................................... 16
Making way for the SID2SID ................................................................................. 17
Adjusting the height of the SID2SID ...................................................................... 18
Connecting the Chip Select ..................................................................................... 19
Audio out................................................................................................................. 20
Inserting the SID2SID into the C64 socket............................................................. 20
Putting it all back together ...................................................................................... 21
Metal covers ............................................................................................................ 21
Finished and ready to go! ........................................................................................ 22
Troubleshooting..........................................................................................................23

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Introduction
Thank you for purchasing the SID2SID circuit board. We are happy to provide a low cost do-
it-yourself product to enhance your experience with the MSSIAH software.

By using the SID2SID board, you get a neat installation of a second SID audio circuit.
The product is provided as is, meaning that it’s up to the owner to find and install the
components necessary for the SID2SID to function properly.
SID2SID is compatible with the MSSIAH and all other software accessing a second SID via
the IO1 address ($DE00).

Note:

A good advice is to read this whole document through before attempting to install the
SID2SID.

Disclaimer
This booklet aims at giving a well enough experienced reader sufficient information to
assemble his or her SID2SID circuit board. 8bit ventures does not take responsibility for any
errors, injuries or malfunctions caused by operations carried out while installing the product.

The product is provided as is without any kind of warranty. A correct installation should not
cause your computer to fail or misbehave. This manual issues warnings to avoid serious
pitfalls that may cause damage to the SID2SID or the computer if not dealt with properly.
Apart from that, owner is required to have enough knowledge to safely assemble and install
standard components.

Note:

If you do not have sufficient knowledge to assemble the SID2SID board yourself, ask
someone with the right skills to do it for you. Either way, 8bit ventures is not to be held
responsible for any consequences of actions taken after reading this manual.

SIDs are sensitive circuits that may be damaged by careless handling.

User is adviced to protect the SIDs from electrical discharges and use discretion whenever
connecting and disconnecting audio equipment from the SID circuit.
The audio output design of the SID2SID is a copy of the standard Commodore 64 audio
output with no extra protective circuits.

C-128 / SX-64
This booklet explains how to install the SID2SID in a standard Commodore 64. Since it
comes with various circuit board revisions it is up to the owner of the SID2SID board to find
the information necessary for his or her specific motherboard. The SID2SID is designed for
the Commodore 64 and has not been officially tested with neither Commodore 128 or SX-64.

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Overview

The SID2SID Printed Circuit Board is a single sided board with copper layers and silk screen
text on one side only. The idea is to place the components on the opposite side and solder
them on the printed side making soldering a lot easier. Installation is made with printed side
facing down.

The SID2SID is very thin (1.2 mm) to fit into the limited space inside the C64. As you will
see later on, lowest height possible is important especially if your motherboard houses an
8580 SID.
Being thin also means being more fragile than standard boards. It might break if too much
pressure is applied on it. Be careful.

All the SID2SID holes share the same diameter, 1.0 mm (0.9 mm on older units). It is big
enough to fit standard sockets and provide sufficient clearance for smaller components
(resistors, capacitors etc).

SID2SID dimensions are carefully designed to fit both 6581 and 8580 motherboards.

Inches (mm)

4
List of Components
These are the components required for the SID2SID board:

Wiring Socket, 28 pins

This socket is for SID #1.
It’s an open frame socket, 600 mil (15,875
mm) wide.

This type of socket has long legs and is in fact

intended for wire wrapping components.
Now we are not going to wire wrap anything
but we do want to take advantage of the
longer legs as a bridge between the SID2SID
and the original SID socket inside the C64.

- The wiring socket is the most expensive SID2SID component -

Socket, 28 pins

This is the socket for SID #2.

It’s a standard socket with short legs.

The width is the same as for SID #1 (15,875
mm).

10 KOhm resistor (5%)

Used as R9

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1 KOhm resistor x 2 (5%)

Used as R8 and R12

10 uF electrolytic capacitor

Used as C77.

Electrolytic capacitors come in all kinds of

shapes and sizes. Pick a small one.

1000 pF standard capacitor

Used as C74

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470 pF standard capacitor

Used as C76

2N2222 transistor

NPN transistor used as Q3

470 pf standard capacitors x 2 ( or x 4 )

-- 6581 only! --

Filter capacitors used as C70/C71 for SID #2.

Note: If you also wish to replace the original

filter caps for SID #1 inside the C64 you will
need four of these.

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22000 pF standard capacitors x 2 ( or x 4 )

-- 8580 only! --

Filter capacitors used as C70/C71 for SID #2.

Note: If you also wish to replace the original

filter caps for SID #1 inside the C64 you will
need four of these.

22000 pF = 22 nF

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Assembling the components

Installing the sockets

Start by installing the socket for SID #2.

Insert it from the top side (the one with no
text). Make sure the cavity on the socket is
facing the same direction as the cavity on
the white circuit outline on the opposite
side of the SID2SID.
When inserting the SID chips later on this
very same cavity on the chips is your guide
to correct alignment.

Note:

Most PCBs with circuit outlines have components installed on the same side as the outlines
(why else print out IC silhouettes?).
This might add some confusion to the SID2SID design as components are placed on the
opposite side of what’s considered industry standard!

Attach the socket by soldering the pins on the bottom side.

Next, go for the long legged socket for SID #1…

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 The SID2SID holes are 1.0 mm which is compatible with most sockets on the market.
If you experience problems when inserting the long legged socket into the SID2SID
holes you might need to sandpaper the legs a little first.
Work your way through all pins until you can fully slide it into the SID2SID with
ease.

Solder the SID #1 socket just like the one for SID #2. It’s a little trickier due to its
long legs being in the way for the soldering iron. Be patient.

New filter capacitors for SID #1 OPTIONAL!

The next step is optional (and not recommended). Once you go through with it there is no
turning back so don’t do this just yet!!
The idea is to cut the first four legs and then install new filter capacitors for SID #1.
We recommend that you DO NOT cut those legs in the first place. You can always do this
later, once you do there’s no way back. Changing original caps is only attractive for very old
C64s with really bad filter capacitors. If not determined, jump to the next section: Resistors.

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 Look at the screen text on the circuit board, the four filter cap pins are marked with a
vertical line.

Once determined to proceed, cut the four marked out upper legs completely.

Resistors
Now attach the resistors. Look at the screen text and put them in the right spots:

R8 1 KOhm
R9 10 KOhm
R12 1 KOhm

Insert the resistors from the top down just like the sockets, solder them and cut the
legs. Alignment is not an issue, these resistors do not have fixed plus and minus
poles.

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 Cut the legs after you’ve soldered them.

Capacitors
Put capacitor C74 (1000 pF) and C76 (470 pF) in place just like the resistors. Solder them and
cut the legs. These capacitors do not have fixed plus and minus poles so alignment is not an
issue.

C77 (10 uF) does however have a fixed plus and minus pole so make sure it’s
inserted correctly. Look at the screen text saying + and – and insert the corresponding
poles of the capacitor in the + and – hole respectively. The capacitor will most
certainly have the minus leg marked out with a minus sign but if not, find out what
leg is minus and what is plus before you insert it and solder it.

Transistor
Now it’s time for the probably most trickiest component, the 2N2222 transistor. This manual
shows one type of transistor, it is not certain that the transistor’s make and model from your
local supplier looks the same. Therefore: you, the reader, must assure yourself that you have
the appropriate info about your component before proceeding!
Since the transistor will suffer from an instant failure at startup if it’s not connected properly
it is absolutely crucial that you take the time and see to it that base, collector and emitter of
the transistor goes into the right connections on the SID2SID board.

In this manual, we have attached it on the opposite side of the components because the
collector-base-emitter layout more or less forces you to do that. If you come up with another
idea and ends up having it on the component side that is fine as long as the base, collector and
emitter legs are correctly connected.

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 Start by identifying the legs of the transistor.

Now look at the SID2SID and the corresponding symbols.

Though space is an issue, make some room for the transistor to move. As you will see
later you will need to bend the transistor away from circuits on the computer’s
motherboard, especially in the case of a C64 with an 8580 SID.

Filter capacitors
The last components that goes into the SID2SID are the filter capacitors.
As we have learned already, 6581 uses 470 pF and 8580 uses 22000 pF (22 nF) capacitors.

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The filter capacitors go into the C70 and C71 holes above each SID.
99% of all SID2SID installations will probably keep the original capacitors for SID #1 (as
recommended), that is, the ones inside the C64. In that case: leave the C70 and C71 holes
above SID #1 empty!
If you are determined to use your own caps, insert them into the C70/C71 holes above SID #1
and cut the four legs of the SID #1 socket as explained earlier in this manual.

Image shows 22000 pF (22 nF) capacitors for 8580 SID #2 inserted and ready to be
soldered. Alignment of the legs are unimportant. These resistors don’t have fixed plus
and minus poles.

Note:

IMPORTANT!
If you have missed the most important thing when switching SID circuits in the C64, here
comes the ground rule once again:
DO NOT MIX SID CIRCUITS WITHIN YOUR COMPUTER!
If the motherboard contains a 6581, it’s built for the 6581 chip and vice versa. No SID2SID
board should have two SIDs of different types. No SID2SID board with 8580s should be
installed in a computer with a 6581 motherboard and no SID2SID board with 6581 is to be
installed in a 8580 motherboard C64!

Audio out / Chip select

Before you finally install the SID2SID in your computer, solder the three wires in the
remaining holes for CS, Audio out and Audio Out GND. It’s easier while you have the
SID2SID in your hand.

These wires are the ones that you will later solder onto the C64 address bus and a phono audio
connector to be able to connect SID #2 to an audio amplifier.

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 Start with CS, the hole in the middle of the board in between the two sockets. CS is
short for ”Chip Select” and lets the computer activate the second SID while
communicating.

Use a simple electric wire. If you don’t purchase one, rip it off any audio or electric cable by
cutting it open and pulling it out. Make it about 9-10 inches (25 cm).

Do the same thing with the wires for SID #2 audio out, make them as long as you
like, it’s up to you to decide whether to drill holes in the computer’s case or simply
stretch the wires out of the C64 (through the opening for the cassette connector for
example) and keep the plug outside.
If you go for the latter it might be wise to solder the wires onto the plug later. The
cassette connector’s opening is most likely smaller than the phono plug itself.

Note:

SID #2 does not produce audio through the C64’s regular audio outputs (DIN audio out or the
TV signal). In other words, you won’t be able to hear any audio from the second SID circuit
unless you connect the audio output from the second SID to an external amplifier.

SID #1 audio is routed to the regular audio outputs of the C64 (DIN audio out and the TV
signal), just like before.
You can find a description on how to build audio cables for SID #1 audio output in the
booklet MSSIAH – Getting Started available on the MSSIAH site.

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Installing the SID2SID

Opening the C64

Start by opening your C64. Be gentle when you remove the plastic top cover.
Remove everything that blocks your way to access the motherboard. You do not have to
dismount the board itself, just make sure you can reach the components inside.

Removing the SID

Now find the SID circuit, it’s either marked with a printing saying 6581 if it’s a 6581 or 8580
if it’s an 8580. Pretty simple.

There are three places to find the SID circuit on C64 motherboards. The most common are
shown in the pictures above. To the left is the 6581, right beside the RF modulator (TV
output) and to the right is the 8580, placed right below the RF modulator.

The third place to find 6581s is in the center of the motherboard. This is true for very few
older boards. Read the printing on the circuits to make sure it really is a SID before you
proceed.
This manual does not cover any extra hardware modifications that may be required to fit the
SID2SID into these older motherboards.

Note:

This manual assumes your SID is in a socket, most of them are. If it’s soldered directly onto
the motherboard you will either have to desolder it and manually attach a socket or simply
find another C64.
Desoldering components can be quite messy and cause damage if you’re not experienced. In
that case, consider getting another C64.

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 Now remove the SID by inserting a small screwdriver under it and pry the circuit off
slowly. Alternate by putting the screwdriver under each side and carefully bend it
upwards a little bit at a time. Too much on one side can hurt the legs so take it slow!
Be aware of electrostatic discharges that might ruin the SID. Wiring your wrist to
ground is recommended.

When you have taken the SID out of the socket, put it in a safe place. Don’t insert it into the
SID2SID just yet.

Making way for the SID2SID

The area around the SID is pretty crowded with capacitors that will be in the way for the
SID2SID. You will need to take care of this before installation is possible.

Gently put your finger or a tool onto the capacitors and slowly push them downwards.
Flat capacitors are pretty easy to bend down and wont hurt if you do it once. Bending
them on and off however will fatigue the legs and make them crack.

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 If you have a C64 with the 6581 SID there’s only one obstacle, the large capacitor to
the right of the socket (as seen in the middle of the image above). You can bend it a
little, it won’t go all the way down but it’s nothing to worry about.

If you have a C64 with an 8580 there are even more capacitors around it but as they
are all flat it shouldn’t be an issue. However, an IC right beside it may cause serious
problems. More on that a little later.

Adjusting the height of the SID2SID

The SID2SID is a very thin board yet sockets and SIDs on top of that bring additional height.
By cutting the legs of the long SID #1 socket you can adjust that height. In fact, if your
computer has the 8580 motherboard you will find that the keyboard and top cover wont come
back on unless the SID2SID is lowered. For 6581 motherboards it’s not that big a deal but it
is still advisable to lower the SID2SID just a little bit.

Start by measuring up the space in your C64. Insert the SID2SID into the old SID
socket inside the computer and try to estimate the optimum length for the socket legs.
The example in this manual, an 8580, ended up being 0,31 – 0,35 inches (0.8 - 0.9
mm). To clarify, it’s the space between the motherboard and the bottom side of the
SID2SID.

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 Cut a little bit at a time so you don’t overdo it. Finding another long legged socket
and start over again might not be a good idea. Desoldering can make copper loosen
from the board.

Note:

Warning! Cutting metal releases small particles of metal that can cause short
circuits so make sure you’re SID2SID is clean afterwards (and don’t lean over your
C64 while cutting!).

To get an understanding of the keyboard/top cover clearance issue, this image shows
a completely installed SID2SID (8580 computer) and the keyboard back in place.
Pretty tight!

Connecting the Chip Select

Now it’s time to solder the other end of the CS-wire.
Find the back of the cartridge connector (“Expansion Port”) and count the upper pins from the
left. You should solder the CS-wire to pin number 7 from the left.

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A good advice is to make a curve out of the end of the wire and thereafter hook it onto the pin
from behind. Solder it and trim it so that it doesn’t short the other pins.

Note:

Caution! It must not touch any other pins of the cartridge port! That will affect not only
SID2SID operation but also prevent your MSSIAH cartridge from proper functioning.

Be aware! When connecting the SID2SID to the expansion port other cartridges than the
MSSIAH may fail to operate properly. If you plan to use your C64 with other cartridges it
might be a good idea to install an on/off switch in between the seventh pin and the SID2SID.

Audio out
Now connect the wires from Audio Out and Audio Out GND on the SID2SID board to the
phono plug and put it where you want it.

Inserting the SID2SID into the C64 socket

Finally insert the SID2SID into the computer’s socket and put both SIDs into the SID2SID
sockets. Be careful when you put pressure on the SID2SID so that you do not break it.

Note:

CAUTION! As mentioned earlier, there is one thing you must pay close attention to if
installing a SID2SID in an 8580 motherboard!
The big IC to the right of the SID in the C64 is CIA Timer B. It is absolutely crucial that you
assure the transistor sticking out from the bottom side of the SID2SID does not touch the
timer B chip!!
If it does, it might short out the timer circuit resulting in a failure of the computer.

If you are installing a SID2SID in a 6581 motherboard, ignore this.

20
 To visualize the problem, look at the image above. At the bottom you see the CIA
timer B chip in a socket (which brings the timer circuit even closer to the transistor
making the problem worse) and the transistor nearly touching the legs. Metal against
metal means a nasty short circuit. (If you can’t see it, look inside the white circle. The
transistor is slightly out of focus.)
Cover the transistor with a piece of tape and bend it carefully away from the timer
chip. Keep an extra eye on this!

Putting it all back together

Now it’s time to wrap it up and put the top cover back on the computer.
For 6581 motherboards this shouldn’t be a problem, even if you didn’t adjust the height of the
long socket legs earlier on, there is probably sufficient clearance inside the C64 anyway.
In case of an 8580 motherboard, with a properly adjusted height the keyboard case should
slide into place easily.

Metal covers

Most of the Commodore computers have some sort of cover on top of the
motherboard whether it is cardboard paper or metal. In case of a metal cover you will
have to take some action to make room for the SID2SID. There is no way you can
simply put the metal cover back on with the SID2SID installed.

21
You have two options from here:
1. Find a cutter and cut out a hole in the cover around the SID2SID only.
2. Remove the metal cover completely. To still be able to attach the keyboard (if not
mounted in the top case), remove the side clamps from the metal cover as shown in
the image above. Use a screwdriver to pry it off.

If you go for the second option (recommended) throw away the metal cover and put the
side clamps back on where they were before.

Finished and ready to go!

If you have followed the instructions in this booklet from the start you should now have a
fully installed SID2SID and are ready to enjoy double SID power with your Commodore 64
when using the MSSIAH Cartridge.

Start up your MSSIAH cartridge, connect the

audio out of SID #2 and use the Test Audio
option in the start menu. If all things work you
should hear SID #2 voice 1,2 and 3 sounding.
Now start up your favorite MSSIAH
application and have the time of your life!

Good luck!

22
Troubleshooting

Regardless of how thorough you’ve been when reading and installing, soldering etc, things
could end up not working at all. Now, we can’t really help you with that, a 100% operating
SID2SID calls for an error-free C64, error-free SIDs, all the correct components and a
completely correctly assembled board.
It is up to you as the SID2SID owner to fulfill those requirements.

To still help you in your way of finding the error, here is a quick troubleshooting guide with
some suggestions and explanations of the most common sources of malfunction:

-No sound of SID #2

• Is the volume turned up, your mixer turned on?
• Is Audio out connected correctly to your mixing device? The SID #2 is not routed to
the ordinary DIN audio output nor the TV audio signal thus needs to be connected to
a separate audio amplifier.
• Is SID #2 working at all? Try it in SID socket #1.
• Are all components connected and soldered correctly? Check solderings and wirings,
use a volt-meter and test connections.
• Is the transistor’s base-collector-emitter connected correctly?
• Is CS soldered onto pin 7 from the left on the back of the user port?
• Are the SIDs inserted in the sockets with correct alignment?
• Is your C64 malfunctioning? Does it fail to address SID #2 address DE00?

-No sound out of either SID #1 or SID #2

• Is the SID2SID inserted correctly into the socket on the C64 motherboard?
• Does your transformer have sufficient power? If it’s too poor, the SIDs can stop
producing audio (that effect has been observed on 8580 computers)
• Are all components connected and soldered correctly?

-Weird graphics on the screen.

-MSSIAH cartridge works only in start up menu, loaded applications have the same
weird graphics.
You have a blown out CIA timer B chip. This is why it is so important to make sure the
transistor on the SID2SID does not make contact with the timer chip whatsoever!! Read the
section “Inserting the SID2SID into the C64” in the “Installing the SID2SID” chapter. There’s
an extra warning about this potential hazard!
Problem can also be related to the PLA (“Programmable Logic Array”) chip of the C64.

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