Wikidata:Property proposal/natural enemy

natural enemy

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science

   Not done

Description	One of the causes of death of this living creatures referred to in this item, which is eaten by that creature.
Represents	natural enemy (Q8019841)
Data type	Item
Domain	taxon
Example 1	house mouse (Q83310) -> house cat (Q146), Peregrine Falcon (Q30535)
Example 2	blue wildebeest (Q328809) -> Crocuta crocuta (Q178089), Nile crocodile (Q168745), lion (Q140)
Example 3	Engraulis japonicus (Q516676) -> Thunnini (Q6146274)
See also	main food source (P1034): species, genus or family that an organism depends on for nutrition

Motivation

If you look at Wikipedia's articles describing animals, you can see many of the natural enemies too. Through this, I wanted to describe the animal's natural enemies together. However, there was to "the food they usually eat", but there was no property to "their natural enemy." I think it would be good to add property to natural enemies. Thank you. Animalsorter (talk) 01:39, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support A useful data point to include in organism descriptions. References should be required for it. AdamSeattle (talk) 03:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
•  Support with required references. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 19:54, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
•  Support that's what I thought was necessary to Wikidata from a long time ago. I suppose too. ―파란여우 (BlueFox) (토론 (talk)) 05:49, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: If not critically evaluated, this property could lead to enormously broad and vague listings: Panonychus ulmi (Q640085) has over 30 predators identified in a single initial survey that looked only at a very small area (South-Central Pennsylvania). Widespread animals low on the food chain, and/or plants, may easily have hundreds if not thousands of identified "natural enemy" species (predators, grazers). For instance krill and other marine plankton is eaten by multitudes of tiny fish, bigger fish, birds, and whales. The number and identity of "natural predators" may vary widely depending on geographical area, as well as type reference: a scientific journal article may list the dozens of exact species that feed on X, while a more general source may just say "X is eaten by fish, mammals, and birds"). And does "natural enemies" include parasites, herbivores, and micropredators that feed on but don't kill the host? And what does "natural" mean anyway? This study identified 46 predator species of Pomacea canaliculata (Q2005098) in areas where it is invasive: should these be excluded as they are presumably "non-natural"? The complexities of biological interactions often don't readily lend themselves to a general database, and this property, if not carefully and clearly defined may just result in a lot of noise and poor quality data that serves little useful purpose. -Animalparty (talk) 21:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

  I wasn't aware of such extreme cases. Originally, I thought of the same amount of data as above. I thought raccoon (Q121439) was a pretty good amount of data. (about 9 kind animals, cougar (Q35255), jagua (Q35694), coyote (Q44299), Mongolian wolf (Q266883), Ursidae (Q11788), wolverine (Q14334), bird of prey (Q48428), American Crocodile (Q207836), American alligator (Q193327)) If it can be too much like Panonychus ulmi (Q640085) We will also have to devise a method of integrating and calling into one.

  and the word 천적 or 天敵 is mainly translated to 'natural enemy'. it's more naturally to call "predators" maybe. I'm sorry made confuse you. Animalsorter (talk) 05:02, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

•  Wait When I read the description I could not tell the direction in which the property is meant. Please use the words subject and object in the description to make it more clear. It's also unclear to me why the direction should be cat -> mouse and not the other way around. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 23:01, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

  Can't we use main food source (P1034) for the query of the creature that is being feed and the above attributes for the creature that is becoming a predetor? For example, house cat (Q146) can use house mouse (Q83310) in main food source (P1034), and house mouse (Q83310) can use house cat (Q146) with that Property. I'm sorry for confusing you with short English. Animalsorter (talk) 11:32, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

  The issue here is that if a user sees the property and doesn't know under how the two animals relate to each other, I don't think "One of the causes of death of this living creatures referred to in this item, which is eaten by that creature." is going to answer the question. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 20:13, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

•  Question Example 3 (a tribe) makes no sense to me. --Succu (talk) 19:46, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

  I wrote it wrong. It's skipjack tuna (Q633957) more specifically, not Thunnini (Q6146274). However, not only this animal, but also all species commonly called 'tuna' were grouped together to the tribe. The description was imported from Korean Wikipedia, and I'm sorry if it wasn't accurate. I wanted to show you that if it's hard to fill in all of particular species, you can use it as like example 3. Animalsorter (talk) 14:26, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

•  Question Should natural enemy (Q8019841) be merged with predator (Q29017578)? --Succu (talk) 18:18, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

  Technically the word '천적' is described from the point of view of the prey. and the predator is usually referred to as another word '포식자', but I haven't disagreement about merging it. however it feels quite different, and the article's contents are slightly different. Therefore likely that a major revision of the article will need to be made. Animalsorter (talk) 03:01, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

  @ChristianKl, Succu:, would you like to give your opinion? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:22, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

  I still find it unclear from the property description which is the subject and which is the object. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 15:12, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

  Would "has natural enemy" make it clearer? AdamSeattle (talk) 20:12, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

  No, hence  Oppose. --Succu (talk) 22:26, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

•  Oppose Poorly thought out, vague proposal (see comments above from multiple editors). Not realistically meaningful in a biological manner, would likely add more noise, clutter, and trivia than anything useful. What's next, "natural friend"? -Animalparty (talk) 04:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
• @Animalsorter, AdamSeattle, Wd-Ryan, AquAFox, ChristianKl, Succu:@Animalparty:,  Not done, no consensus of proposed property at this time based on the above discussion. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 07:55, 9 April 2024 (UTC)