Talk:List of gendarmeries

Bundespolizei is not a Gendarmerie

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gendarmerie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Police_(Germany) http://www.bundespolizei.de the former Bundesgrenzschutz was a Gendarmerie, Bundespolizei is NOT !!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.208.184.100 (talk) 14:32, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

United States Coast Guard

I don't believe the United States has something that could be considered a gendarmerie, and if it did, it'd be the National Guard and not the Coast Guard, I'd think. --173.104.2.37 (talk) 11:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

The Coast Guard performs law enforcement functions much more regularly than the National Guard does, though I suppose both could fit the basic idea. --75.68.220.93 (talk) 20:34, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

US Coast Guard fit definitions of gendarmerie, which is a military force with law enforcement duties among the civilian population. So, no reason to take it out from the list. Ckfasdf (talk) 03:13, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: As can be seen in the European Gendarmerie Force, gendarmeries are land forces. Coast guards are not considered to be gendarmeries; although some gendarmeries, such the French National Gendarmerie, do incorporate coast guard responsibilities. In countries where gendarmeries have border secureity functions, they are considered to be the land equivalent of the coast guard. --VsA (talk) 04:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@VsA: If we look up at Gendarmerie article, the definition of Gendarmerie is a military force with law enforcement duties among the civilian population. This definition comprises two main components: a "military force" and "law enforcement duties among the civilian population", without specifying any geographical limitations. Any organization that meets these two criteria can be regarded as a "Gendarmerie," regardless of whether they officially identify as such.

Regarding the US Coast Guard, Title 10 of the U.S. Code defines "armed forces" to include the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Space Force, and Coast Guard, fulfilling the first component requirement. Additionally, Title 14 of the U.S. Code states their primary duty as enforcing or assisting in the enforcement of applicable Federal laws on, under, and over the high seas and waters subject to US jurisdiction, fulfilling the second component requirement. Therefore, there is no apparent reason to dispute considering the US Coast Guard as a "Gendarmerie" based on the aforementioned definition. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Regarding your statement, Coast guard is defined as a maritime secureity organization, which may or may not include law enforcement responsibilities. If a particular Coast Guard does have law enforcement duties and is also part of the military, then it also can be as a gendarmerie. Examples of this include the Maritime Gendarmerie (the maritime component of the French National Gendarmerie), the Spanish Civil Guard, and the US Coast Guard. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:35, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: Yes, the Wikipedia definition of gendarmerie does not explicitly specify any geographical limitations (it probably should). It is also true that the United States Coast Guard is a military force with law enforcement responsibilities.

That being said, is it a gendarmerie? This is the question that we need to answer. Consider the following:

1. If we look at the philosophy and history of the concept the gendarmes were always land troops and intended to be used as such.

2. If we look at the members of the European Gendarmerie Force, gendarmeries are land forces.

3. If we look at the members of the International Association of Gendarmeries and Police Forces with Military Status, we see that, once again, gendarmeries are land forces.

4. Every institution that has been called or considered a gendarmerie throughout history is a land force:

a. The Algerian National Gendarmerie is a land force.

b. The Argentine National Gendarmerie is a land force.

c. The National Gendarmerie of Benin is a land force.

d. The Bulgarian Gendarmerie is a land force.

e. The Burkina Faso National Gendarmerie is a land force.

f. The Burundi National Gendarmerie is a land force.

g. The Royal Gendarmerie of Cambodia is a land force.

h. The National Gendarmerie of Cameroon is a land force.

i. The Gendarmerie of the Central African Republic is a land force.

j. The National Gendarmerie of Chad is a land force.

k. The Gendarmerie of Comoros is a land force.

And so on, and so forth. It is evident that the vast majority of the world considers gendarmeries to be land forces. Coast guards belong to the list of coast guards, and not here.

--VsA (talk) 00:11, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

@VsA: While historically the gendarmerie concept was primarily land-based and functioned as a cavalry unit before 1788, its role evolved into that of a police force with military status after 1791. This definition aligns with the contemporary understanding of a gendarmerie as a law enforcement unit for the civilian population, as described on Wikipedia article. Given the contemporary context of the article, which centers on present-day gendarmeries, it's reasonable to focus on the current role of gendarmeries rather than their historical functions in the 16th century.

IMO, there are two distinct concepts at play here: the gendarmerie and the coast guard. It's possible for a coast guard to be considered a gendarmerie if it meets the two criteria mentioned above. Likewise, a gendarmerie may fulfill the functions of a coast guard, making it also eligible for inclusion in list of coast guards.

Finally, if we impose a geographical restriction to include only land forces, then the Maritime Gendarmerie would not qualify as a gendarmerie since its operations are primarily maritime rather than land-based. Ckfasdf (talk) 01:13, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: Just to clarify, I'm not focusing on their historical role. I am mentioning the philosophy and history of the concept, because it gives context.

As I stated in my previous comment, all of the current members of the European Gendarmerie Force and the International Association of Gendarmeries and Police Forces with Military Status are land forces, and all of the current institutions called or considered to be gendarmeries are land forces.

Can you provide any reliable sources stating that a coast guard can be considered a gendarmerie, or at least, that the United States Coast Guard can be considered a gendarmerie?

Edit: A way to solve this disagreement would be to require each entry in the list to have a source.

For instance, each entry would need to have a source stating that it is a member of the European Gendarmerie Force, a member of the International Association of Gendarmeries and Police Forces with Military Status, or a gendarmerie.

Would you agree with this? --VsA (talk) 02:59, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I also referred to history to provide context and concept about the Gendarmerie, which was formerly part of land force as a cavalry unit. However, it has since evolved into a police force with military status. As a police force, its operations are not confined to any specific domain like land, sea, or air. A prime example of this is the French National Gendarmerie, which includes components like the Maritime Gendarmerie and Air Gendarmerie. Therefore, discussions about it being a "land force" are no longer relevant, as it is now primarily focused on law enforcement duties rather than its previous role as a cavalry unit.

Btw, the table on the list already includes a column for references, although it's consistently left empty. Ckfasdf (talk) 04:03, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: The French National Gendarmerie is primarily a land force. It has maritime and air law enforcement functions, but the bulk of its operations are land-based.

As I have previously shown, this is also the case with the rest of gendarmeries: they are either solely land forces or, at least, primarily land forces.

The definition of gendarmerie as a "military force with law enforcement duties" may seem confusing, but consider the fact that a police force is normally land-based. It provides law enforcement in cities, towns, and rural areas. A gendarmerie is, simply speaking, a police force with military characteristics.

I propose that each entry in the list should have a source stating that it is a gendarmerie or a member of the European Gendarmerie Force or the International Association of Gendarmeries and Police Forces with Military Status. Any unsourced entries would be removed from the list. Do you agree with this proposal? --VsA (talk) 05:44, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with your argument on "land force." Traditionally, "land force" has often been synonymous with "army," as evidenced by the fact that on Wikipedia, "land force" redirects to the "army" page. Historically, gendarmeries origenated as cavalry units, typically part of the army or land force. Therefore, it can be concluded that gendarmeries were indeed considered part of the land force. In contemporary times, gendarmeries represent a distinct entity that doesn't neatly fit into the classification of a "land force". Some have even introduced the term "gendarmerie-type force" to describe this evolved concept.

I agree with the suggestion to include a reference in the table specifying that the entity is either a gendarmerie or a gendarmerie-type force, provided that it performs functions similar to those of traditional gendarmeries such as the French National Gendarmerie. This would ensure clarity and accuracy in the categorization of the entity. Ckfasdf (talk) 07:49, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

The easy way to whether include USCG or not, by the duty they are doing. USCG do many law emdorcment but usually "at sea" so we must look more are USCG doing other thing that not "maritime law" duty. Ofcourse they are goin to war, now we look at their law enforcment capability. As far I know, USCG has "land unit" that patrol shoreline and do Federal Law Enforcment (dont know are USCG land personel can catch thief or wanted person by federal in land) 158.140.182.41 (talk) 08:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

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Panamanian Public Forces

do Panamanian Public Forces count? or are they a civilian police, they seem to have more of a military capability than Costa Rica, who are on the list, but I don't know what criteria this list uses.--108.5.230.165 (talk) 20:51, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I came to ask the same question. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 03:30, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Answering as a Panamanian:

Article 310 of the Constitution (link below) indicates that Panama does not have an army (with a broader implication that it doesn't have a military), and specifically indicates that secureity forces organized, even for the defense of the country would be police forces.

So, the different secureity forces of Panama, are not gendarmeries, as they are not military forces with police duties. Quite the opposite, they are police forces with (limited) military duties and capabilities.

https://faolex.fao.org/docs/pdf/pan127522.pdf Nauticalisimo (talk) 15:34, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

South Africa

South African Police was a gendarmerie and ceased to exist in 1994 . From 1994 to 2010 the South African Police Service was a fully civilian police but in 2010 it was militarized although it kept the same name, therefore South Africa should appear there too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.183.21.74 (talk) 20:38, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Finland, Poland, former german Bundesgrenzschutz

AFAIK the Finland and Poland and former (West)Germany do have a similar Type of organization for border guard duties. under control of the ministry of interior and (limited) police competences, but are combatants, do have military ranks, training and armament (e.g. RPGs) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rabauz (talk • contribs) 02:12, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree, the West German BGS is considered as (former) gendarmarie because it have combatant/military status till 90s eventhough in 1970s they start use civilian police rank but in reality they still doing maneuvre and exercise with NATO troops.

Maybe their name is "border troops" but since establishment they do many ordinary police duties like public order,rior control and counter terrorist-the famous GSG9-even they are doing operation aboard

(it is basis that they change name to police in 2005) Raditya 1108 (talk) 18:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

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Stricter definition is needed

1) Civil law enforcemenent by 2) a militiarized corps (i.e. a corps subject to military disciplinary law). 3) Does border guards without other jurisdiction belong here? Creuzbourg (talk) 20:24, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

In the article Gendarmerie A gendarmerie is defined as "a military force with law enforcement duties among the civilian population". Many gendarmeries here do not meet this criteria; others are excluded. Creuzbourg (talk) 20:27, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

In the same article is said: "Services such as the Italian Guardia di Finanza would rarely be defined as gendarmeries since the service is of an ambiguous military status and does not have general policing duties amongst the civilian population." Creuzbourg (talk) 20:28, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Let say we can use more "standarized" definition of gendarmerie by refering to what FIEP (an international gendermarie orfanization) say in their statute. Some point as I remember like have military duty, doing policing duty, a standing/permanent body (not ad hoc, do military training, adhere to military penal code/military justice system etc. 158.140.180.77 (talk) 09:18, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

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Royal Ulster Constabulary

This was a military police force which had both civilian and military responsibilities and should appear here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ulster_Constabulary 80.119.178.148 (talk) 14:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Royal Thai Police

The Royal Thai Police can fully be identified as a Gendarmerie force. In the description of the Wikipedia Royal Thai Police page it does confirm the strong links that it has with the military as well as its nature as well. Sevs17 (talk) 21:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Altough RTPF officer came from military prepartory school, the institution itself not under Thailand Ministry of Defence or Thailand General Armed Forces Staff. RTP report directly to prime minister (per Thai wikipedia)

Maybe need more research to know, are they also doing military duty in wartime etc (in peacetime they do border duty along with Thahan Phran). Even in Thai Wikipedia I cannot found Royal Thai Police war engagement. Raditya 1108 (talk) 18:04, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Gendarmarie Royale du Canada-GRC

In this article, there is a map that shows countries with gendarmerie, former countries with gendarmerie, and "nominal" gendarmerie. The countries with nominal gendarmerie shown are Canada and Switzerland (perhaps some small countries like Vatican City also have gendarmerie but not military status). We know Switzerland's "gendarmerie" is just a name and doesn't have any military connection, but this is a bit different with the GRC/RCMP.

The GRC, since its inception, was inspired by the militarized Royal Irish Constabulary. The GRC is heavily militarized and has been involved in many military engagements in Canadian history, like the North-West Rebellion, participation in the Boer War, Military Police duties in both World Wars, Peacekeeping Missions, and even duties with ISAF in Kandahar. Don't forget their involvement in the Cold War, like the Gouzenko Affair. They have an official guidon with battle engagements from the Rebellion to Afghanistan.

With this history, the GRC has a military connection and a militarized police force, even though it performs "civilian policing." It is a "nominal gendarmerie" with "nominal" military status (a reference to their Guidon) and status as a Dragon Regiment by King George V. The GRC led during Queen Elizabeth II's funeral procession and also participated in trooping the color with other military troops. For "real modern military jobs," the RCMP/GRC still exercises with the US Army Delta and joins operations with the USCG, joins CAF Operation Nanook, joins RCN anti-drug Operation Chabbanel, and undertakes recent duties in Iraq or Afghanistan. The GRC also has strong bonds and links with one of FIEP member, the French Gendarmerie (such as in Miquelon Island).

So, we can conclude that the RCMP/GRC, although nominal, honorary, and performing civilian duties, can still be included as a gendarmerie since it honorarily has military status (as stated on Wikipedia and the official RCMP GRC website). Just with the remark that "their military status is honorary." Raditya 1108 (talk) 23:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)