Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive70
Athenean
[edit]| Both parties admonished and warned; filer interaction-banned. |
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Request concerning Athenean[edit]
@I think that was the most supportive comment I could make and saying that it could be reduced to 4 months seemed supportive, although I agreed with the initial sanctions, but for my own reasons I changed my mind. If I had to make a similar comment again I would still consider it supportive because I generally don't even partially approve alternatives to already imposed sanctions, so all things considered from my subjective view I probably couldn't more supportive than that. Since the AE Athenean hasn't been very active on Albanian-related topics but regarding the two Albanian-related topics he's taking part in recently this dif is possibly problematic [9]. @Athenean: When Athenean was sanctioned Kedadi(an Albanian user) was sanctioned too, because I reported both sanction violations. The comments of Athenean show his battleground mentality , which is why I reported him to AE and notified admins who had dealt with him before as they would be more familiar with the discussion(and that is something that Athenean labels as canvassing}. Athenean even now labels the comments of all Albanian users as a national block, so all things considered a topic ban from Albanian topics is more than necessary given the fact that fighting nasty Albanian propaganda is one of Athenean's goals on wikipedia, which as I saw in another report is one of the first comments he has ever made on wikipedia I find the nationalist propaganda on the Albania page very dangerous for Greece and its heritage (analogous to the FYROM dispute) and only by uniting will we be able to set the record straight and defeat this nasty propaganda.(this one of his comments, but as you can see Athenean still continues the same behavior by trying to exclude all Albanian users' opinions as comments of low quality).
Discussion concerning Athenean[edit]Statement by Athenean[edit]
P.S.: Following the posting of the above defense, Zjarri Rrethues is now digging up diffs from 3+ years ago, from my naive old days. I think that speaks for itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Athenean (talk • contribs) 03:26, 27 September 2010 (UTC) P.P.S.: Zjarri isn't just hounding me, he is hounding several Greek users at once: User:Alexikoua, User:Seleukosa [33] (his behavior at the SPI speaks for itself). This user should be banned from commenting and filing frivolous reports against several Greek users, not just me. And the interaction ban should be one-sided, as he is the one doing the hounding, not me. The use of IRC to denounce his opponents behind their backs also really really needs to stop (he has done that at least three times recently). Comments by others about the request concerning Athenean[edit]I have to add that Athenean is really carefull in apporaching a variety of sensitive topics, including these that are of national sensitivity among the Balkan countries: he always fills a new case in wp:ani before things would become hot and follows a slow, step-by-step, strategy in order to make it easier to solve the case. During the last two years, I watch his contribution, he received by various administrators congratulation messages ([[34]]) because of his efforts to battle distruption in wikipedia. I believe if a specific edit-summary was somewhat problematic this can't change the whole picture, especially in this case, when someone, like Athenean, spends hours to improve the quality of this project.Alexikoua (talk) 13:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Athenean[edit]
Looking over this. In the mean time, I invite ZjarriRrethues (talk · contribs) to show cause why they should not be sanctioned for misrepresenting the contents of this diff as support for reducing Athenean's previous topic ban. T. Canens (talk) 02:50, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
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Brews ohare
[edit]| Closed with no block, but with the four admonitions given by Wgfinley. EdJohnston (talk) 21:32, 8 October 2010 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Brews ohare[edit]
Discussion concerning Brews ohare[edit]Statement by Brews ohare[edit]Of course, there are many ways to approach salvage of article content, and Blackburne apparently would prefer it be done differently. Posting a replacement article without the flaws of the one in dispute is a reasonable approach to retaining what was of value, particularly when the article in AfD had so many failings (including an incorrect title) that made a total rewrite the practical course of action. The Vector quadruple product discussion was not interfered with, and that article was deleted as was evident would happen from the beginning, and as advocated by Blackburne himself. The newly corrected article Quadruple product with a correct title and proper citations is presently under AfD without the distractions of obvious problems, and will be removed if notability cannot be established. That course of events requires no disciplinary intervention. It is odd to view creation of a corrected, sourced article with the right title as interference. It isn't an infraction of WP procedures. Blackburne's claim of a violation of this sanction as the basis for bringing his action here has no connection to the AfD issue. That is, Blackburne is not requesting enforcement of a sanction against me, but confusing an AfD discussion with something it is not. His action does not belong here, and no-one here has shown any cause to believe it does. A (false) perception of my interpretations of physics topics is not a basis for action here upon an unrelated matter that is, in fact, a salutary action to salvage an article's correct content. Brews ohare (talk) 19:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC) BTW; the terms of the sanctions against me require a formal warning by an uninvolved administrator that action is under consideration, to allow me to desist without need for disciplinary action. No such warning was provided, vitiating any action under the sanctions. Of course, it is my position that creating an article to salvage a math topic in AfD is not a disciplinary matter anyway, and has no connection to the sanctions in force against me. So protocol violations are of importance only if by some weird twist of thought it is considered that the sanctions actually apply, which has not been shown, nor even argued. Brews ohare (talk) 19:27, 29 September 2010 (UTC) WGFinley: I am sorry that your review has not changed your mind, despite the facts that (i) the sanction does not apply (ii) were it to apply, it was improperly implemented and (iii) my actions were beneficial to WP and conform to normal WP editing. You view an important aspect of the sanction, that of prior warning, as Wikilawyering: ArbCom knows why it put that warning into the wording, and it was not so it could be ignored. Contrary to your reading, it serves the purpose of warning me that what is on its face a benign activity will be interpreted as an actionable infraction. However, the main problem is not the wording of the sanction, it is that no effort has been made to show the sanction does apply, and that my actions were not exactly what I claim them to be: a salvage operation entirely separate from the subject of the sanction. Ask yourself what possible other motive I might have. Am I expressing a controversial opinion? No. Am I developing original research? Hardly! Am I arguing with other editors about deletion? Only with Blackburne, who rather than discuss deletion, came here to exercise. Personally, I don't give a damn about this article: I was simply trying to be of service. If it is deleted, so be it. Excuse my language, #$%^ this article. It would be lamentable if you were so rushed that you could not take the time to think about your actions, and simply rubber-stamped. Brews ohare (talk) 21:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC) Reply to WGFinley's latest: Your assessment of my objectives is a half-truth: I was not aiming to avoid deletion of the article, but to salvage what was correct under an appropriate topic name. That was in no way disruptive, and the article from the outset was clearly going to deletion, with protests from no-one, as happened. Look at the deletion discussion. Blackburne is not protesting against actual disruption, but pursuing his personal campaign of AN/I actions, failed attempts at deletions of other articles I have posted (for example, this), deletion of my figures, forcing of nit-picking RfC's over any detail he can find, and trivial reversions of my minor edits. Brews ohare (talk) 17:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC) More to WGFinley: “The behavior that brought me to Arbcom” is covered by the restrictions proposed by Arbcom, and cited by Blackburne as being violated by my present actions. These restrictions (i) have not been shown to be violated, and (ii) the warning required by protocol wasn't issued. Instead of dismissal of this action as not pertinent, now the subject has turned to vague assertions of various “disturbances that took place in various areas”, which are only say-so claims by Blackburne. At the most, any "disturbance" amounts to creation of a substitute article without the obvious problems identified in the original AfD. The new article has resulted in an AfD for Quadruple product that now is proceeding on a clear basis with the glaring issues of the original out of the way. That is not “forcing the process to start over”: it's clearing the decks for an uncluttered discussion. This salvage procedure isn't Wikipedia:Gaming the system, that is, it isn't “a bad faith effort to thwart the purposes of WP”. Rather, it's a normal evolution of an article that needed a lot of work, including a new title, corrected statements, and sourcing. To introduce the notion of malicious intent on my part is baseless. Brews ohare (talk) 00:14, 1 October 2010 (UTC) Reply to Flonight: Even granting your long preamble that the manner of my contributions annoys some editors, I fail to see merit in blocking me for the innocuous creation of an article in a totally uncontroversial area. In fact, WP appears likely to have two new articles of mine, Vector algebra relations and Quadruple product, that will have been adopted as a result of my activities regarding the original AfD, and despite objections by Blackburne. You are advocating a block for actions unrelated to the issues you wish to underline. I'd suggest you wait to block me until some truly problematic behavior of mine shows up, and not for constructive activities like salvaging the contents of an article in AfD. Brews ohare (talk) 13:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC) Regarding your observation “Brews needs to be more sensitive to how his content contributions and discussion comments come across to other people in order to lower the tensions around him.” I would like to lower those tensions too. I don't think my content contributions are the biggest problem (aside from arguments about their being too text-book like or offering too many examples), but it does appear that editors do not appreciate detailed Talk page discussions, and like to settle matters simply. I believe I am evolving in the direction of limited response, although I believe limited discussion to result in simple-minded articles. Brews ohare (talk) 13:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC) Response to request for contrition made by WGFinley: WGF, I agree that reform of my Talk page argumentativeness is desirable. However, I do not find that such argumentativeness is the source of Blackburne's action. No editor involved in the various AfD's save Blackburne has found my behavior there heinous, and Administrators don't either: they just think I'm in the dock so some reminder that I am under sanction would be salutary. I assure you that such a reminder is unnecessary. In the present instance, no violation of my sanctions has occurred, and even if you believe yourself that a violation did occur, protocol has not been followed. That is, despite your own interpretation, the fair-warning clause of my sanction was not observed, which in your mind is just surplus garbage in the wording. I believe that in fact it is a crucial part of the sanction, especially when benign actions to salvage article content from deletion is taken as an offense, something I'd not expect unless warned. So, although I'm happy to admit failings, and need for reform, I do not find the present situation warrants any action on your part, and that my behavior in the past, already under sanction, needs no gratuitous emphasis in the present context. Brews ohare (talk) 15:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC) Response to EdJohnston: Although I have asked for clarification in the past, that is not an excuse for making no attempt at identifying the behavior that this particular sanction is meant to correct, and making clear what reform in my conduct is sought. How else can reform occur? I'd say that there is a pattern with ArbCom and administrators in general of stating such sanctions in a deliberately vague manner, ostensibly to allow latitude in their enforcement (Beeeblebrox: “Vagueness of many policies/rulings/guidelines/ is not an accident.”), but actually serves to allow sanctions to be brought with no justification in cases such as this one, where no harm has been identified, simply because there is none. If they all believe something is wrong here, they should show cause, and not disguise matters with empty words and vague allegations about prior behavior being repeated with no evidence of same. Brews ohare (talk) 12:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC) In particular, Ed, I made no-one "mad" in the AfD "debate", if you read it, except Blackburne, who was mad to begin with and thought this WP:AE action was a great way to vent. Please point out with diffs any other person who has indicated impatience with my actions in the AfD discussion, which was by no stretch of imagination a "debate". Brews ohare (talk) 05:33, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Ed, you will notice that the outcome of the AfD was deletion of the article, a result evident from the outset of the AfD as no-one supported it (hardly a debate, eh?), and creation by myself of two new articles Vector algebra relations (with a section correcting the bare statement of results from the deleted article) and Quadruple product expanding the discussion of the subject of the deleted article beyond mere results. This last has survived its own AfD (a no-consensus vote), and the first was not subjected to an AfD. These two articles are the positive results of my actions: their creation has annoyed no-one (save Blackburne, of course) and they are in keeping with the goals of WP. In view of all the above, which details you may not have looked into before, I'd appreciate from you a more careful framing of the issues here, rather than your present rather jaundiced view which I find to be superficial. Brews ohare (talk) 12:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Reply to Michael C Price: I'm sure your explanation is the best you can do, given your abilities. However, it is overly complicated: you see, I am only an idiot, not an idiot savant. Brews ohare (talk) 21:49, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Comment on proposed remedy[edit]I would like a further clarification of the proposed remedy:
A “yes” answer seems to me to be your intent on all counts. That kind of abrupt and harsh action outside all regulation and reason is brute force and while a command, commands no respect. I do hope I have misinterpreted your intent. Brews ohare (talk) 15:45, 5 October 2010 (UTC) It now appears that AGK and FloNight support WGFinley in this ill-advised, arbitrary action taken without regard to protocol. As with WGFinley, AGK suggests that I will be firmly sanctioned under "similar circumstances" although it remains completely unspecified what "circumstances" have been evidenced by my actions to salvage an article, a salvage procedure that has led without a breath of controversy (aside from Blackburne, of course) to two new articles Quadruple product and Vector algebra relations that would otherwise not exist. Perhaps the "circumstances" leading to firm sanction arise whenever Blackburne objects to something that I do? FloNight suggests that my salvage actions here unnecessarily provoked controversy, although there was absolutely no controversy except with Blackburne himself, who has a huge history of nitpicking everything I do on WP, a matter not entirely under my control. What has happened is that my historical past is introduced and it is proposed that I be sanctioned once more on the basis of my past actions, nothing to do with the present situation at all. Brews ohare (talk) 17:37, 7 October 2010 (UTC) I'm resigned to such indifference to reasonableness. I am used now to actions by administrators who rejoice in their authority, without regard for its goals. A main goal, of course, is the facilitation of creation and improvement of articles, exactly what I have done here. Instead of looking at the two articles I have added to WP, false allegations by Blackburne have been adopted without scrutiny and used to fabricate a controversy with no supporting evidence whatsoever, and no awareness that evidence is needed. It's a shame and it's shameful. Brews ohare (talk) 15:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC) In sum: I can understand very well an admonishment that my conduct in the AfD could have led to an imbroglio so I should be more careful in future. I can't understand the four-point proposed remedy of WGFinley, which goes far beyond that. In contradiction to fact, WGFinley implies that my conduct during the AfD really disrupted the AfD, suggests my topic restrictions be extended to mathematics even though subject matter is not at issue and even though such an extension probably is ultra vires, imputes a lack of good faith on my part not in evidence, and asserts that should I be dragged before administrators in their function of adjudication, that is an actionable offense in itself and I should be assumed to have "improperly comported myself". It is clear that this last presumption was made already by WGFinley in his drafting of his remedy. WGFinley's remedy is unduly prejudicial in scope and wording. It's got nothing to do with what happened. Brews ohare (talk) 14:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC) Comment on AGK's outline of understanding[edit]I appreciate your intention to better inform me of my problems and how this admonition is to assist me. There are a few things that strike me as correct, and some that are not.
I object to FloNight's observation that I needlessly provoke conflict. I believe that this remark applies to me on occasion, less so recently than in the past, but that it isn't pertinent in the present context. Exchange with Blackburne is exchange with a very difficult individual and cannot be generalized so simply. Brews ohare (talk) 18:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Brews ohare[edit]Comment by Count Iblis (Brews' advocate :) )[edit]Brews has let me know that he won't have time for Wikipedia for the coming few weeks and asked me to take a look at the article about the quadruple product, particularly his comments here, because he thought the article would be put on AFD by John Blackburne after he left. He presumably doesn't know that the matter has ended up here. I didn't have enough time to read through all the disputes, but what I did note was lack of participation from other math experts in the AFD. I.m.o., the matter should have been raised at WikiProject math, because the issue isn't that straightforward. It is now hard to see what is consensus and what is the opinion of JohnBlackburne and User:DVdm. I have asked User:Hans Adler, an experienced math editor, if he has the time to give his comments here. My preliminary look leads me to conclude that this is one of those issues where I say: "what is all the fuss about", but I know that others sometime have a competely different opinion in such cases. So that's why I asked him to take a look. Count Iblis (talk) 01:42, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I have a different opinion on your actions that Brews has. I don't see it as a personal campaign to oppose Brews per se. But you do have the complete opposite POV when it comes to editing/creating articles. Two previous articles in which Brews was heavily involved that you put on AFD that I'm aware of are: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Idée fixe Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Redefinition of the Metre in 1983 Both of these articles are now reasonably good articles (I think these artiles were even PRODed first by you, but I would have to check). About the PROD for the quadruple product article, note that it was eventually refused by JamesBWatson on the grounds: "Declining speedy deletion. This article is substantially different from the one discussed in the previous AfD." I think all this is well motivated, you edit Wikipedia to improve it in the best way you see fit. But when doing so leads to you frequently having to "oppose" another editor and if that opposition (which is not your goal per se) is often rejected by the community, you have to ask yourself if your opinion is not a bit idiosyncratic. It may be better to raise perceived problems at Wiki-Project Math first and let others take the initiative to start an AFD, or warn Brews about misconduct. Count Iblis (talk) 17:51, 30 September 2010 (UTC) Comment by jheiv[edit]The article seems useless (IMO), however, what looks to be more of a concern is the user's actions during the AfD discussion. And while the article looks fine on its face (some sourcing, pretty equations), it worries me that the user is so committed to his edits that he refuses to seek consensus, or actively opposes it. To be honest, its a little disappointing because it looks as if the editor has the skills and ability to contribute productively, if they had any interest in it at all -- but at least from the actions outlined here -- it's not clear to me that they do. jheiv talk contribs 08:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC) Comment by Hans Adler[edit]I am only commenting here because Count Iblis asked me to. About the question of mathematics or physics: This article is about mathematics, although it is the kind of mathematics that interests physicists much more than mathematicians. About the article itself: It seems useless to me. Basically it just defines a term that is not very important. If it is in common use among some people, then it should be defined in a related article and the article should be redirected there. About Brews Ohare's editing of mathematics articles: He has contributed a large number of beautiful graphics to Pythagorean theorem. He has also participated in one of the most bizarre debates about a mathematical topic that I have ever seen (now filling most of talk page archives 3 and 4), started by David Tombe, who claimed that the theorem is really a three-dimensional theorem and in particular that it doesn't hold in higher dimensions. Brews Ohare's role in this discussion was not clear to me (in fact I confused him with David Tombe and in a previous version of this comment falsely claimed that he had started the discussion), but in any case I think he didn't help to stop the circus. It is generally not a good idea to ignore consensus or ongoing discussions. On the other hand this is not a clear case of doing so. It appears that Brews Ohare misjudged other editors' positions and attitudes, especially w.r.t. himself, and was acting in a spirit of good faith and collaborative editing. (I am not very familiar with him, though, and may be missing a general pattern here.) [Comment revised after an email by Davide Tombe refreshed my mind.]Hans Adler 16:19, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment by David Tombe[edit]It might be a good idea if any future actions taken against Brews ohare were to be initiated by editors other than John Blackburne or Headbomb. I have totally lost count of how many actions these two editors have taken out against Brews ohare in the last 12 months, but apart from one action by Physchim62, I can't recall any actions against Brews ohare which were not initiated by either Headbomb or John Blackburne. It doesn't look good when the requests for sanctions and article deletions are always coming from the same two editors. David Tombe (talk) 18:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC) Reply to John Blackburne[edit]John, The point which I am making is that I think the time has now come for you to voluntarily stand aside and let somebody else take on the role of policing Brews ohare. I think you've done your bit for now. This latest episode concerning the vector quadruple product has got some of the hallmarks of The Boy Who Cried Wolf, and as such, I think it's only fair to the administrators to allow them the opportunity to see if anybody else will take over if you step aside. David Tombe (talk) 19:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC) Reply to Hans Adler[edit]Hans, it would be much better if you were to actually check your facts before speaking out in a negative manner against anybody. I corrected you regarding Brews ohare because I was there at the discussion in question and I saw what went on. You now acknowledge that you made a mistake in relation to what you said about Brews, but you have decided in turn to speak negatively about me instead. You are speaking here to a group of administrators who perhaps don't know very much about mathematics, and so it is unfair to voice your own negative opinions about my views on mathematical topics to these guys here. It is also wrong to claim that I started the debate in question when in fact I didn't. My entry to that debate began at the end of archive 2 and I had sporadic edits throughout archives 3 and 4. See here [43] The viewpoint which I expressed was based on a Lounesto source, a favourite source of John Blackburne's, and that viewpoint was that the Pythagorean identity could at most only hold in 3 or 7 dimensions. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever bizarre about this point of view, as you have claimed above. David Tombe (talk) 17:27, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Comment by Michael C. Price[edit]Everyone - well, almost everyone - is asking Brews to understand how his behaviour pisses off others. There is also a general bewilderment about Brews' motivation. Could it be that we have a case of Asperger's syndrome here? Not sure what the solution is, if this is the case, but understanding the problem might go some way towards finding a solution. --Michael C. Price talk 19:07, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Brews ohare[edit]
Creating articles, redirects, etc when the article is being discussed in an AfD is very bad form and seems to be in violation of his restriction. The topic of this article is in the field of theoretical physics is it not? Looking at the soruces for the secondary source article from MathWorld, three of the four are books on physics. --WGFinley (talk) 05:17, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I find the conduct of this user to continue to be disruptive and subject to repeated cases. This year alone March, July and twice in August he's been a subject here for his disruption either by editors or by Arbcom. Creating forks of an article under AfD or recreating an article under AfD is WP:GAME and a user under his restrictions should know better. Now banned from physics it appears he may be turning to mathematics. I would propose the following remedy:
--WGFinley (talk) 04:33, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Have reviewed Brews response, it doesn't cause me to change my position on the suggestion here. Stating an uninvolved admin needs to warn is WP:LAWYER at best and I believe not true in my read of the sanction. Editors shouldn't have to fetch an admin every time an editor under probation needs to be warned. Unless Arbcom has determined otherwise I would keep the same remedy. Thoughts?? --WGFinley (talk) 21:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Proposed Remedy[edit]This AE has carried on far, too long, unless there are objections I would like to proceed with the following remedy:
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Lontech
[edit]| Lontech (talk · contribs) is hereby banned indefinitely from all articles, discussions, and other content related to Kosovo, broadly construed. T. Canens (talk) 17:25, 25 September 2010 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Lontech[edit]
Lontech, check your removals again:
The first text was POV and dab's comment applies. The second one was an improved version that was not POV. Maybe you didn't realize that the text had changed? --Enric Naval (talk) 18:26, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Lontech[edit]Statement by Lontech[edit]I dont see a violation of rules Thanks for clarifying that Revere was after 1 week ( 9 days later ) so there is no 1RR violation Regarding Discussion: It was and still it is clear pov . Dab has explained very well afaik it is undisputed that Kosovo was populated with a Serbian majority prior to 1800 just as it is undisputed that there is an Albanian majority now. As for "cradle", the Serbs as an ethnicity began to articulate from a generic South Slavic population in the 6th to 9th century. There was no territory coterminous with Kosovo prior to the 19th century so it can hardly be the cradle of Serbian culture. According to our Serbs article, " The first Serb states were Rascia, Doclea, Travunia, Pagania and Zachlumia." It is undisputed that what is now Kosovo is a part of these territories, but I see no evidence that it was in any sense more of a "cradle" than any other part. "Kosovo" got its relevance only in the wake of 1389, long after Serbian culture had emerged. So yes, what is now Kosovo used to be part of medieval Serbia, but no, I see no evidence it was a "cradle" (or ?"crux") in any particular sense. --dab (𒁳) 16:28, 18 September 2010 (UTC) or It has been required to copy and paste again dabs coment.-- LONTECH Talk 17:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Lontech[edit]Per multiple disputed actions, and per some previous and contemporary personal attacks (diff, Lontech - ethnic attacks at ANI, reported by SarekOfVulcan) and pov pushing by this user, some urgent reaction is required regarding this request. User was blocked indef by J.delanoy, but unblocked also by him after agreement to follow the rules. It looks like that agreement is forgotten by Lontech. --WhiteWriter speaks 12:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Lontech[edit]
The point of a discussion restriction is to get people to discuss. It's not an "each side can make a post on talk page and then revert with impunity" restriction. The violations are unambiguous, and given that a time-limited topic ban on Kosovo related topics has been imposed once already, I'm opting for a indefinite ban on this violation. Under the authority of WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions, Lontech (talk · contribs) is hereby banned indefinitely from all articles, discussions, and other content related to Kosovo, broadly construed. This ban may be appealed as provided in WP:ARBMAC#Appeal of discretionary sanctions. T. Canens (talk) 17:25, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
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Shutterbug
[edit]| The requested remedy is ultra vires of this forum, please go to AN with this request. Courcelles 04:07, 26 September 2010 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Shutterbug[edit]
Upgrade, from existing indef block to ban.
Request this be changed to a ban. -- Cirt (talk) 03:42, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Shutterbug[edit]Statement by Shutterbug[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Shutterbug[edit]Result concerning Shutterbug[edit]
Not an AE matter; please take it to AN for a community ban discussion. T. Canens (talk) 04:03, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
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Martintg
[edit]| Blocked for one week. |
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Request concerning Martintg[edit]
Discussion concerning Martintg[edit]Statement by Martintg[edit]Frankly, I'm not surprised that Offliner is attempting to game WP:AE and wikilawyer that I have some how breached my topic ban, I predicted this may well happen during my amendment request here, and it has come to pass. It's not the first time Offliner has attempted to game the system, having had me permanently blocked for WP:OUTING until some level headed admins realised an hour later his claims were bogus[80]. I said to the drafting Arbitrator Newyorkbrad at the time of my amendment request that I will be going back to ArbCom should this happen to seek further clarifcation and possibly an interaction ban[81], and I will be filing such a request to ArbCom in coming days. In the mean time a few comments regarding the specifics of this vexatious complaint:
--Martin (talk) 09:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC) Statement by Petri Krohn[edit]The central and core issue in the Eastern European disputes – as it relates to Estonia and other Baltic republics – is the claimed state continuity of the Baltic states in exile (hist). On one side there is the point-of-view that the Baltic republics were under military occupation by the Soviet Army from 1940 to 1991 or 1992 or even 1994. On the other side there is the point-of-view, that the claimed Soviet occupation of the Baltic States – outside the very narrow context of the one-sided Soviet reinterpretation of the 1939 Military Bases Agreement in June 1940 and associated troop deployments – is nothing more than falsification of history and its inclusion in Wikipedia constitutes a fringe WP:POVFORK on the articles on the Soviet Baltic republics, i.e. Estonian SSR, Latvian SSR, and Lithuanian SSR.
A related dispute exist around the “Double Genocide movement” – or the point-of-view that “Red equals Brown”; that “Soviet crimes” equal or exceed Nazi crimes. An sampling of opinions in this heated real-world debate is available at Holocaust in the Baltics web site maintained by Dovid Katz, see Media Chronicle. Note, that the collection contains op-ed pieces in The Guardian this very week. Notable pundits in this debate include Imbi Paju (hist) and Sofi Oksanen (hist) – as well her novel Purge (hist) – and most likely the Baltic-American Freedom Foundation (hist).
As the sources above also demonstrate, material to the EE disputes is the the Holocaust in Estonia, including key articles like Jägala concentration camp (hist), Kalevi-Liiva (hist) and Omakaitse (diff), and the claimed Estonian glorification of Nazism, a topic directly linked to the article Erna Raid (hist). . Martintg'a edits to less controversial subjects mainly push his point-of-view relating these issues:
In fact, looking at Martintg's edit history, the only article I can find that is not directly related to the current Russian–Estonian information war is the one on Jacob Johann Köhler (1698–1757). The fact that Martintg has not been confronted because of his recent edits should not be considered as tacit acceptance of his actions. This is a very long running dispute and those on the other side have learned to value patience. His edits have been closely followed – with awe and despair. What finally forced Offliner to take action was this formal warning to Martintg by user Igny today. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Martintg[edit]
Result concerning Martintg[edit]
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83.147.186.140
[edit]| IP warned; no further action necessary. |
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Request concerning 83.147.186.140[edit]
Discussion concerning 83.147.186.140[edit]Statement by 83.147.186.140[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning 83.147.186.140[edit]Result concerning 83.147.186.140[edit]
I have added an explanation of why the policy exists to the editor's talk page. Suggest we leave this open for a while, and if the editor violates the remedy again after the 12 hr block expires, impose a one week block. If the editor complies, I don't see a need for further action. Looie496 (talk) 17:41, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
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Per the Climate Change arbitration I've removed the probation notice from Climatic Research Unit email controversy. [92] There was a related notice imposing a 1RR rule on that article under the probation. I've decided to bring that here to let uninvolved admins decide whether to renew the 1RR on that article under the discretionary sanctions. --TS 11:51, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- I think it best to renew all the (article and user) sanctions imposed under the probation under the discretionary sanctions; appeals can then be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. This is probably less time and resource consuming than the alternative. T. Canens (talk) 12:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Specific to the Climatic Research Unit email controversy article, given the recent reverting of the article (see history) the 1RR rule needs to stay on this article. FloNight♥♥♥♥ 12:26, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- I note that in this discussion, Kirill indicated that all the sanctions imposed by the now closed Climate change sanctions noticeboard would continue to be in force. Cardamon (talk) 17:49, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Agree with T. Canens. --WGFinley (talk) 16:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
mark nutley
[edit]| Marknutley (talk · contribs) blocked 1 week; Petri Krohn (talk · contribs) blocked 24 hours. | |||
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First revert: 17:45, 13 October 2010 (remove POV pushing "Some anti communists"? Seriously?)[93] Second revert: 15:37, 14 October 2010 (rv this is being discussed, why insert it before a consensus is reached?)[94] Third revert: 17:12, 14 October 2010 (rv BLP exemption you can`t call a BLP an anti communist without solid reliable sourceing)[95]
Statement by Mark Nutley[edit]Well obviously i made a mistake here and seeking a block over this is petty beyond belief, blocks are meant to be preventative not punitive and i am obviously not edit warring here. The first diff shows when i removed the text. However i went straight to the talk page [100] to begin discussing what is obviously a contentious addition. The only remark TFD has made in this debate was This is a topic that does not exist in the academic mainstream and the article should not pretend that it does. TFD (talk) 15:28, 14 October 2010 (UTC) then he proceeded to reinsert the text knowing full well it was contentious and under debate. This is disruptive behaviour. This was an honest mistake on my part and i think a block is a bit much mark (talk) 16:52, 14 October 2010 (UTC) One other thing, two editors recently broke the revert someone go straight to talk rule, i told them of it and even though they did not go to the talk page to explain i did not seek enforcement against them. Because everyone makes the odd mistake. Trying to get someone blocked because you disagree with them is a bit much for me. mark (talk) 19:04, 14 October 2010 (UTC) Statement by Collect[edit]The insertion of an unsourced claim involing living people into the lede is the real problem. I would suggest the "some anti-communists" phrasing was to indicate that only a minority of an extreme class of some sort supported the statement. Nikita Krushchev is clearly, in this context, an "anti-communist." I suggest the seven or so AfD discussions about the page are germane in understanding the conflict between those who have iterated desires to delete the page as being "anti-communist" and (the prevailing view) that the article is proper in Wikipedia mainspace. Collect (talk) 18:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning mark nutley[edit]
<-I urge avoidance of Wikipedia:Coatrack. The action of Mark are clearly relevant, as are the actions of The Four Deuces, both because TFD brought the action, and because the TFD insertion and revert of the insertion are the edits in question. While others are involved in what is shaping up to be an edit war, if not there already, dragging in Petri's edit should not be done here. If someone find's problems with Petri's edits (and I do not), I think they should be addressed separately, to avoid turning this into a tar baby.SPhilbrickT 19:41, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Petri Krohn[edit]Some people are making very serious accusations against me, namely that I have
Both claims are unfounded. My edits fall within WP:BRD, as I will demonstrate with diffs. Per Wikipedia:Edit warring, BRD is not edit warring: This is known as the bold, revert, discuss (BRD) cycle, and is not edit warring. My edits were intended to produce a compromise version everyone could agree on, and thus end the revert cycle. I was also fully aware, that if I failed to stop the edit warring by a suitable compromise, the article would be protected from editing. Here is a list of edits today, with a diff to the previous version closest to the new version: My two edits. Both edits introduce new content.
For comparison, here is a list of edits by other editors today. All are blind reverts to a previous version.
With eight blind reverts (+ Mark's original revert), it is clear that an edit war has been going on. I have not been involved in this edit war. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Zloyvolsheb[edit]Collect's accusation that Petri Krohn has violated 1RR appears to be unfounded. The two diffs he provides [111] and [112] for Petri Krohn's edits on that day are simply showing us that Petri made two different edits to one section of the article. The first is a general statement that "Some anti-communists assert that these mass killings in communist states are a direct result of communist doctrine", the second the referenced assertion that "Linking communist ideology to mass killings became a recurring theme in Cold War anti-communists propaganda. [ref to Victor Vashi...]" These edits are actually expressing two semantically different propositions, however otherwise related thematically they may be. (No terrible wonder, given that they are both propositions inserted into the same article by Petri Krohn, whose background, personality, and interest in history are much the same as Petri Krohn's.) It's very true that Petri's earlier edit is partially a revert to text that someone inserted earlier, but that, unlike Marknutley's editing, still counts for only one revert. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 23:07, 14 October 2010 (UTC) Comment by SandyGeorgia[edit]I note that ten minutes after The Four Deuces reverted Marknutley,[113] Jrtayloriv made his first edit ever to this article to make the same revert.[114] This is similar to the editing that occurs at the Venezuela/Hugo Chavez articles. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:40, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning mark nutley[edit]
Arbitration sanctions are not negotiable, and marknutley has clearly violated this one after acknowledging that it applies. Misbehavior by other editors is not at issue here: if they have violated the sanctions, a separate enforcement request should be opened. My inclination is to impose a 1 week block. Looie496 (talk) 18:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
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Newcomers Rendahl and Poznan edit warring on climate change articles
[edit]| Rendahl blocked indef as SciBaby sock, Poznan given notice of discretionary sanctions |
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This is a delicate one. There are two new editors:
Strictly speaking Poznan's account goes back a couple of years but in that time he had only made 18 edits on two articles, one about an Aberdonian artist and the other about a researcher in psychology from Dundee, which latter article Poznan himself created. I've warned Rendahl about his edit warring on Scientific opinion on climate change. Now he is joining in with complete newcomer Poznan in what looks like an incipient edit war on The Hockey Stick Illusion. For new editors this is especially fraught activity in a topic area that has so recently been a battlefield. I suggest that an uninvolved admin might notify them of the discretionary sanctions and ask them to use the talk page more. --TS 21:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm less worried about the possibility of socking. They're rather less aggressive than socks we've had in this area, and a little more communicative. However their editing is still rather more aggressive than our editing guidelines for the sanctions area, having both restored disputed material, and so I think it would be good to inform them and advise them on how to proceed without getting into edit wars (albeit rather minor ones) on the topic. --TS 09:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Another one, this guy Squiddy has reverted three times today at The Hockey Stick Illusion [117] [118] [119]. I've warned him about edit warring and the probation, but official notification might be good. --TS 21:32, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
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The user posts WP:COPYVIO attack material (see e.g. [120], [121]), and this series of edits makes it fairly plain that they are a sock of blocked User:Jones.liam. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:46, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
More socks did turn up. See this discussion of three other probable socks that were active between 15th and 19th. If more show up with the same pattern over the next few weeks I'll open a long term abuse case. --TS 11:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
Edit war at No Pressure (film)
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Thanks to those who intervened on the talk page. The squabbling over how to describe the source ended amicably when somebody pointed out that the source was a blog being used in the absence of a pressing need to source from blogs. --TS 11:31, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
This falls under the climate change sanctions (they're specially written for the case so please do read the text).
There is an ongoing edit war here with all parties apparently blaming one another. I've put up what amounts to a "cease and desist" notice on the talk page but more eyes would be welcome. Possibly action needs to be taken at this point. Several editors are behaving abominably. --TS 13:59, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
User:Hammer of Habsburg reported by User:Taivo (Result: Blocked through WP:AN3 request)
[edit]- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- Closed per a report at WP:AN3. EdJohnston (talk) 23:08, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Note: I'm not sure whether this belongs here or at WP:3RR so I have placed it in both places. Croatian language has been placed under the 1RR restrictions of WP:ARBMAC.
Page: Croatian language (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
User being reported: Hammer of Habsburg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Previous version reverted to: [122]
Croatian language is under the 1RR restrictions of WP:ARBMAC
Diff of edit warring / 3RR warning: [125]
Comments:
User:Hammer of Habsburg has now violated 1RR again after he was blocked here yesterday for the same thing. --Taivo (talk) 17:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- User:Hammer of Habsburg was blocked by the WP:3RR request. This can be closed. --Taivo (talk) 20:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Topic banned editors needling one another
[edit]| Closed; discussion continues at WP:AN#Topic banned editors needling one another |
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This is not the only example, but it's typical of the way in which, for the past week or so since the end of the climate change arbitration case, topic-banned editors are still needling one another. I include Lar because although he is not topic banned but requested to stop using his admin bit in the area, there is an arbitration finding in the case (Finding 12.3) that Lar "has made inappropriate comments and actions and at times shows a battleground mentality, especially for an admin." In fact he has not edited in the topic but acted in the enforcement of the recently superseded probation. ATren and William M. Connolley have a long history of animosity toward one another, as do Lar and William M. Connolley. The cited link above shows William M. Connolley extending a needling match from the Running commentary thread on the arbcom noticeboard to Lar's user talk page. Lar picks it up gladly, and ATren jumps in with his two penn'orth. I wonder if it would be appropriate now to ask Lar and the topic banned editors ATren and William M. Connolley to observe a mutual interaction ban. They've had a week to get over it but seem not to have done so. --TS 14:38, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I suggest that the editors keep these sorts of discussions confined to the the appropriate forum. Count Iblis (talk) 17:03, 21 October 2010 (UTC) The cited link above shows William M. Connolley extending a needling match - wrong. Lar called me a prat; I aske him to retract the PA. I considered contacting an admin, but reflected that the advice in general has been that one should in general contact the offending party to request redress first. Is taht advice now retracted? William M. Connolley (talk) 18:27, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I would like to add this to this discussion. I commented at Tony Sidaway's talk page not expecting my comment to be anything more than my opinion of what was being discussed. Lar came to the discussion accusing me of being bias about WMC and him, an accusation I feel is hurtful to make. His whole comment to me is rude. Lar is an administrator that I used to go to for lots of different things. I don't know why he wrote to me like he did but I don't think he, as an administrator, should be talking to people like this. I think that this should be stopped. I don't want any problems with Lar, but lately he's been commenting after I make comments trying to put me in a bad light and it's not right. I'm sorry but this behavior of his towards me is starting to make me nervous. Thanks for listening, --CrohnieGalTalk 19:34, 21 October 2010 (UTC) |
Edit war on 1RR article Climatic Research Unit email controversy
[edit]| Not an enforcement request |
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In the wake of my comment on a talk page deprecating a journalist's comment, an edit war has developed on this article between Viriditas, Dave souza and two IPs. It has been under 1RR since the days of the probation. The Committee indicated that all remedies under the probation should be kept in place, so it still applies and there is a notice about it on the talk page. --TS 14:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm still learning this stuff. I'll provide a much clearer analysis if I have to do this kind of thing again. Fortunately no lasting harm was done thanks to the blocking admin's prompt action in unblocking. Tasty monster (=TS ) 16:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC) |
Africangenesis
[edit]| Editor notified of CC remedies and promises to edit in accordance with them |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Africangenesis[edit]
Discussion concerning Africangenesis[edit]Statement by Africangenesis[edit]Why am I being warned about disruptive edits, when none of these are edits? And why are only comments considered uncivil and not reverts that don't assume good faith, and when they don't hold up on the talk page aren't restored leaving the article in an obviously erroneous state. Or as in Schulz case just drive-by reverting without participating on the talk page. Careless reverts by people who don't read the edits or the sources in good faith. And then there are similarly careless characterizations without careful consideration. For example, TS essentially called me a liar above, when he state that Schulz participated on the talk page relevant to his reverts. Schulz did not respond on the chemistry. And the article where Schulz "pointed out caveats in the paper on October 19.", is not the article involved in either revert. The first revert was about ocean acidification where he only left the dismissive and erroneous chemist edit summary, and the second was about the erroneous article statement that solar forcing had a cooling effect, the article was the IPCC FAR report, not one that Schulz had any caveats on. (But I do.). This is the same Schulz as before, but evidently thinks if he drives-by only once a day, he can stay under the radar. And once again TS showed the lack of careful consideration and assmption of good faith typical of those that escaped the purge. I may have been uncivil, but I was careful to be correct and was pointedly correct when I did so. But I've had my say, and it is not in my nature to be uncivil, it took conscious and conscientious effort to convict these editors of their behavior, and I am naturally too lazy to continue the effort. But you need to know, that those remaining are just as guilty as those banned, they are just little more than an ill-informed mob without their leader. That is how it worked, they were so numerous they could run under your radar. The global warming article owes much to my participation in the past, in the face of fierce opposition and hypocritical double standards for evidence. If you look back you will see I was a model of polite persistence. I came back to see if things had changed, and they have some, what is left is an ill-informed mob that tends to embarrass themselves if they try to address the science. The can't sustain scientific arguments, so they are left with only a double standard application of wikipedia arguments. But, as I say, I'm through with the incivility and any response in kind to their battleground tactics. I accept that sanctions are in force and will honor them. I actually hold myself to a higher standard. For instance, you won't see me reverting text just because it is unsourced, unless I have actual reason to believe that it is also incorrect, and I will stick around and discuss any issues or sources that are brought forward, giving the editor a fair hearing.--Africangenesis (talk) 00:03, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Africangenesis[edit]He's still at it [128]. --TS 23:20, 21 October 2010 (UTC) More incivility and problematic behavior:
More warnings on behavior:
Jesstalk|edits 23:40, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Africangenesis is formally notified, and he has promised to abide by the sanctions, so that's it. --TS 00:30, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I think if he can curb such expressions during article improvement discussions that will be a great improvement. We cannot do much about what a Wikipedian actually thinks, deep down, about his fellow editors. Tasty monster (=TS ) 16:15, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Africangenesis[edit]
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Socking at Global climate model
[edit]| socks blocked, page protected |
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There's a very obvious "duck test" sock trying to shoe-horn his opinion into this article by edit warring.
And possibly:
--TS 21:13, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I think this is me again. I filed cases in multiple venues without really flagging what I was up to. Between 2113 and 2144 I filed cases here, at WP:RFPP and at WP:SPI with no real coordination and not knowing that the Stevehhll case had already been filed by TenOfAllTrades. It's even worse than that--before actually doing anything I edit warred up to three reverts with that very aptly names sock puppet, "The great sluggo". Must. Not. Panic. So. Much. Sorry everybody. Thanks Looie for the prompt semi-protection of the page and the pro-active approach. We need to co-ordinate a bit more, that's all. All in all, not bad for a Friday evening when a young man's fancy turns to... oh TMI. --TS 22:59, 22 October 2010 (UTC) |