Property talk:P734
Documentation
part of full name of person
| Description | The surname, family name, or the last name of a person. This only applies to persons who have a last name. This provides a machine readable version of the label for person items. See also: given name (P735). | ||||||||||||||||
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| Represents | family name (Q101352) | ||||||||||||||||
| Data type | Item | ||||||||||||||||
| Domain | human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), family (Q8436), sibling group (Q16979650), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), person (Q215627), clan (Q211503), lineage (Q1517820), fictional family (Q15331236), alter ego (Q201662), noble family (Q13417114), Spanish noble family (Q62792750), United States presidential pet (Q2850068) or fictional sibling group (Q21191150) | ||||||||||||||||
| Example | Jack Bauer (Q24) → Bauer (Q1965022) Kim Ji-yeon (Q485431) → Kim (Q13083721) Kim Bauer (Q1049347) → Bauer (Q1965022) Angela Merkel (Q567) → Merkel (Q1921787) Kasner (Q42593905) Galina Barinova (Q4078246) → Barinova (Q56384201) Aleksandr Barinov (Q47453138) → Barinov (Q55220806) Oscar Shumsky (Q2896819) → Shumsky (Q37446078) Carolin Schumski (Q1044351) → Schumski (Q56421485) Gabriel García Márquez (Q5878) → García (Q980636) Guðni Jóhannesson (Q24045706) → not applicable Akihito (Q37979) → not applicable Julius Caesar (Q1048) → not applicable Ursula Heindrichs (Q6480340) → Wiegers (Q36922721) Ursula Heindrichs (Q6480340) → Heindrichs (Q83355276) | ||||||||||||||||
| Source | en:Template:Chinese name (note: this information should be moved to a property statement; use property source website for the property (P1896)) | ||||||||||||||||
| Formatter URL | https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/$1 https://www.familysearch.org/en/surname?surname=$1 https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=$1 | ||||||||||||||||
| Tracking: same | no label (Q42533380) | ||||||||||||||||
| Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P734 (Q29459691) | ||||||||||||||||
| See also | given name (P735), second family name in Spanish name (P1950), family (P53), patronym or matronym (P5056), Scandinavian middle family name (P6978), surname for other gender (P5278) | ||||||||||||||||
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| Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||||||
| Current uses |
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| Search for values |
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#Type Q5, Q95074, Q8436, Q16979650, Q21070598, Q215627, Q211503, Q1517820, Q15331236, Q201662, Q13417114, Q62792750, Q2850068, Q21191150, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#Value type Q101352, Q110874, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#Scope, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#Conflicts with P31, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#Target required claim P1705, SPARQL, SPARQL (by value)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#Target required claim P282, SPARQL, SPARQL (by value)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P734#Entity types
TODO: add Commons category and/or Commons sitelink to item (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item ?ct ?sampleitem ?title WHERE { { SELECT ?item (count(*) as ?ct) (SAMPLE(?p) as ?sampleitem) WHERE { ?p wdt:P734 ?item } GROUP BY ?item ORDER BY DESC(?ct) LIMIT 4999 } MINUS { ?item wdt:P373 [] } ?item wdt:P282 wd:Q8229 OPTIONAL { [] schema:about ?item ; schema:isPartOf <https://commons.wikimedia.org/> ; schema:name ?title } } ORDER BY DESC(?ct) ASC(?item)List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P734#Frequently used values generally have a Commons category
fixme (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item ?p ?pl2 ?dabl { ?p wdt:P734 ?item . ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q4167410 OPTIONAL { ?p rdfs:label ?pl . FILTER(lang(?pl)="ru") } OPTIONAL { ?item rdfs:label ?dabl . FILTER(lang(?dabl)="ru") } BIND(REPLACE(str(?pl), str(?dabl), CONCAT("<b>",str(?dabl),"</b>")) as ?pl2) } ORDER BY ?pl2 ?dabl (xsd:integer(SUBSTR(STR(?p),33)))List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P734#Value shouldn't be an item for disambiguation pages
TODO: split the items (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?itemDescription { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q101352 , wd:Q8436 . SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" } }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P734#Items for family names shouldn't also be items for families
TODO: split the items, use another value/move statement to P53 (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?itemDescription { ?item wdt:P734 ?fn . ?fn wdt:P31 wd:Q8436 . SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" } }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P734#Value shouldn't be an item for families
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Include Icelandic "last" name?
[edit]How should we link items for Icelandic son/dóttir from items for people? The easiest solution might be to use this.
--- Jura 17:43, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Jura1: We have patronym or matronym for this name (P2976). --Yair rand (talk) 19:56, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Jura1: Actually, it appears that I was mistaken. P2976 is for linking from given names, to equivalents. We don't appear to have such a property for linking from humans, so I've started a proposal at Wikidata:Property proposal/Patronym or matronym. --Yair rand (talk) 23:30, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
group of humans (Q16334295) to be used in violation 'type' to exclude
[edit]It would seem that Q16334295 should be added as an acceptable value to check for violations. At the moment, things utilising this item appear as a violation of this property. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:52, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Meant to involve fictional people?
[edit]I am seeing conflicting statements. The descriptive data indicates that this is for a person, though the constraints indicate that fictional people are allowed. Which is it? Seems weird that we would assign a family name to a fictional creation. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:23, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
Patronym proposal
[edit]There is an ongoing property proposal to create a new property to represent patronyms or matronyms, for "last names" that are formed from a parent's given name and passed on for one generation only. Deryck Chan (talk) 14:26, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
Inflected family names
[edit]How should we deal with inflected family names? For example, should Maria Sharapova (Q11666) get Sharapov (Q4520420) because (I presume), it's the feminine form of the base name? Bovlb (talk) 23:49, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
- I'm struggling with the same issue for Bronisława Dłuska (Q8861061), and whether Dłuski (Q44296062) is appropriate even though it should be declined with -a. To my mind, there's two ways of dealing with it:
- Create a new page for the inflected feminine form and mark it as an instance of the inflected masculine form;
- Create new pages for a "root" form and the inflected feminine form, and mark both the feminine and the masculine forms as instances of the root form. Sasuke Sarutobi (talk) 13:08, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
- Or treat them as the same family name with aliases or female form of label (P2521). See also given name version for other gender (P1560). Bovlb (talk) 18:31, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Removed "value requires statement" constraint
[edit]I've removed property constraint (P2302): value-requires-statement constraint (Q21510864) for "instance of", as it was causing error messages when INSEE municipality code (P374) is listed on Wikidata items for people (e.g. Bronisława Dłuska (Q8861061)) (essentially, it was telling editors to list a statement as an instance of itself). I guess the requirement was there for items relating to the family names themselves? Sasuke Sarutobi (talk) 13:15, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
- It probably works better with Q47030363 (or a new family name item) as value, instead of Q44296062 (a disambiguation item).
--- Jura 13:49, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
...Soundex? It's for English pronunciations only. But this property is used for surnames in all languages - surely that isn't an appropriate constraint? I've removed it for now; feel free to discuss and revert if you know why the constraint was there in the first place. Deryck Chan (talk) 13:11, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, some names can't be pronounced in English. Maybe "no value" can be used for these.
--- Jura 13:28, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
Script required
[edit]The constraint for writing system (P282) is just there to ensure that items used as value for P734 have this. As in general we have just one item per form in a given writing system, the statement is important. For more statements to include on these items, see Wikidata:WikiProject_Names/Properties#Family_name. Showcase items at Fugger (Q37018433) and Crawford (Q20731004).
@Justus Nussbaum: who asked about it. --- Jura 19:31, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- This reply of yours, user Jura1, (and why is it not at your Disc Page where it should be b/c I asked you there?) is not acceptable because it doesn't answer any questions! For example: you just give an affirmation ("the statement is important") while I asked you definitely to give reasons why we should rate it as "important". (If I'd wanted politicians' empty talk I'd look up certain media but not the appreciated working space of Wikidata!) You are required to answer questions about your edits (even more about your rollbacks) because Wikidata is based on cooperation and evaluation and objectivity.
- This is my list of questions (reimported from your disc page): {{citation|"question to debate is [this rollback of yours. You wrote: "most important one". Well, I doubt that and I don't understand the reason why you think so. Consequently I have to ask you to explain it to me. I'm always willing to learn valuable knowledge (if it's offered in a convincing logical form ). I stumbled upon the condition in question because it impacted my work negatively and I saw no logical sense in it. So I canceled it. Why should it be there? Not at all evident! And why a condition named [P282]? What is even the meaning of it in that context? Could that be: 'written form"? Riddles, no evidence, I'm really looking forward to get your reasons explaining why that all makes sense in your eyes. -- Justus Nussbaum (talk) 12:58, 3 April 2019 (UTC)" }}
- My work in Wikidata is sorely afflicted by too much warning messages popping up recently because some property creators have done half-baked jobs that cause these popups. There is some work /cooperation necessary to clean that mess up. In the given case about 'family name' I actually could not even guess(!) what entry of mine would have been expected. That's what I call 'half-baked'. And now I ask you once again: please answer my questions, explain your statements and give some (one at least) convincing logical reasons why you think that family name (P734) (family name) needs the constraint writing system (P282) (scripture). -- Justus Nussbaum (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
@Jura1: who is once again asked to give some reasons why. -- Justus Nussbaum (talk) 20:05, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
- Your main question is one about the non-mandatory constraint on this property. For the benefit of other users, I answered it here. Please re-read the sentence starting with "As in general".
If there is a specific edit of yours where you think this constraint is problematic, please provide a link to that edit. As for general issues with Wikidata, please use Project Chat or the Developer Contact Page. Unfortunately I don't have time to assist on general questions. --- Jura 06:03, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
French family names with 'de'
[edit]Has there been any discussion about French names with 'de'? Is it considered part of the family name? How will including it affect sorting? For example, a name like 'Jérôme de La Gorce' (BnF ID) is usually sorted as 'La Gorce, Jerome De' (or in some systems as 'Lagorce, Jerome De', although that is a separate issue from what I am asking here). --Robert.Allen (talk) 18:26, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
value requires statement constraint: Sima should have a statement for instance of with one of the following values: family name/double surname
[edit]This constraint is problematic. Sima (Q592176) is an instance of Chinese compound surname (Q847773) which is a subclass of double family name (Q29042997).--Roy17 (talk) 11:39, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
- Just add the statement and it should be fine. --- Jura 00:44, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
- The constraint should be changed to allow instances of subclass of surnames too.--Midleading (talk) 12:48, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
family names that begin with a lowercase character??
[edit]There are many people whose last name begins with a lowercase character, but it seems to be impossible to enter such a name into wikidata. Is this a known issue? Is there a workaround or a flag to be set?
- Nicholas von Hoffman is missing the leading "von"
- Charles ffoulkes is listed incorrectly as "Ffoulkes"
- William vanden Heuvel is listed incorrectly as "Van den Heuvel"
- Katrina vanden Heuvel is listed incorrectly as "Van den Heuvel"
--CmdrDan (talk) 23:52, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
- No, it's just that they get created by default with uppercase and sometimes get mixed up. Wikipedia and Commons can't handle inital lowercase correctly. If an item isn't available yet, you could create it with https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/cradle/#/subject/given_or_family_name --- Jura 00:44, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Comment to my edit
[edit]I added one more allowed qualifier: "applies to part", as a person may have one surname that is a part of his/her/their birth name (real name), and another surname as a part of pseudonym. Does somebody have any objections? Property:P735 (given name) also allows the qualifier of "applies to part", I guess for similar reasons. An example of usage is here. --Wolverène (talk) 13:25, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
Can a family have a family name?
[edit]Currently, when a family is assigned this property, there appears a note saying, "An entity with P734 should also have a statement given name." Well, wouldn't it make sense that a family as a whole can have a family name, yet no given name? See, e.g., Q10786232. --Ehitaja (talk) 11:26, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
item requires statement constraint: given name
[edit]I would like to ask why there is a constraint requiring to give a given name (P735) for the item. What if I only know his/her family name but not his/her given name. Also, for Chinese people, there are so many combinations of given name. It's very often that a given name is only used by a person that I have not created any item for those "given name" because it's too complicated. I rarely see items created for those given name. However, some Chinese people do have an English name (Latin script name) and usually only their English given name is created as a claim. It doesn't seem a given name claim must be given before a family name. Thanks. Sun8908 💬 06:15, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
- I removed it (specifically for Chinese people - this is unsolvable). Lockal (talk) 20:05, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Is this property allowed for people with two or more surnames?
[edit]I'm trying to find the best property for Brazilian and Portuguese names that have more than one surname/ family name. It's very common to register a person with both mother and father's family names. Can P734 be used with one value for each family name? Thank you AmarilisMGC (talk) 21:51, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
- @AmarilisMGC: Sure, look to use series ordinal (P1545) as a qualifer so that it is evident their order of use. The best place to ask the question for the complex cases is Wikidata talk:WikiProject Names as that is where the dudes hang out. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:32, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
- @billinghurst:, thank you for your suggestions. AmarilisMGC (talk) 12:07, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
- @AmarilisMGC: Sure, look to use series ordinal (P1545) as a qualifer so that it is evident their order of use. The best place to ask the question for the complex cases is Wikidata talk:WikiProject Names as that is where the dudes hang out. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:32, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
People with more than one valid spelling of their name
[edit]People who moved around, or who kept residences in more than one country, are often documented with different spellings. Is there a way to handle these? I opened a question on Project chat for those not on this watchlist - see Wikidata:Project_chat#Family_names_of_people_who_moved_around_or_who_kept_residences_in_more_than_one_country. Thx Jane023 (talk) 08:08, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
- It has been suggested to use valid in place (P3005) as qualifiers to each spelling perr place (as opposed to series ordinal (P1545) for name changes over time) Jane023 (talk) 08:38, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
tussenvoegsel
[edit]I'm uncertain about proper modeling of Marc Vander Linden (Q89657714)family name (P734)Linden (Q1826011)
"Widow of"
[edit]The widow of Jacob van Meurs was an artist and businesswoman in her own right, but her own name seems to be lost to history, and thus I specified that "widow of Jacob van Meurs" is a notname. However, we certainly know her last name: "van Meurs". But this produces a constraint violation?
Thoughts? DS (talk) 16:28, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
- ... and in the less than 15 minutes since I posted that, I found her actual name. The general question still stands, though: there are widows who continued their husbands' artistic careers, and whose work is on Commons, and whose actual name is lost. DS (talk) 16:44, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
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